How much CPU does it take?

[jkovarovics]

This is really more of a question that should land in some sort of hardware section of the forum but MEP2010 is what I use so I should be good. I'm trying to get a sense of what sort of machines people are using when they start getting into large MEP jobs in 3D. I'm working on a small area of a hospital doing duct, pipe, plum, & medgas 3D coordination and I really have to think before every move. Sometimes just panning sends my machine into a 1-2 minute panic attack while other times there's just a little jerkiness. Granted this is with all those disciplines xrefed and 2 vieports. With one discipline and one viewport, things are pretty smooth. What it comes down to is I'm starting to think that shelling out over a grand for some upgrades but I'm curious if this performance is still true of higher end machines. My current specs are below. I don't think they are too shabby but, if a high end workstation is what it's going to require, then so be it. Please feel free to share yours.

CPU: Intel Q9300 quad core 2.5ghz OC'd to 3.2ghz
Ram: 4g ddr2 1066
Video: Nvidia 8800GTX
HD: Seagate 7200RPM SATA 3.0 250GB

[david_peterson]

The best thing (IMHO) you can do right now today is switch to Vista 64 (God, I never thought I'd say that, Vista Wow)
Your current specs are just fine. If you switch to Vista and drop in 4 or more GB of Ram, you'll be in great shape.
I believe that ACA 2010 did start to make use of mulit core processors (2 cores max) for more than just rendering stuff.
The sticker is that fact that XP and I think Vista 32 both only see up to 3 gigs of ram.
The 64 bit version of vista I believe will look at and use up to 32 GB. (Might be more, I'm not a big hardware guy).
We just completed a project with an estimated construction budget of $500Mil. It's a big Lab building, Heavy on the mechanicals. I just did the structure so I didn't split my model up as our MEP guys did. They did 1 trade per sheet per floor and x-reffed them all together for final coordination. My suggestion is to split each trade into it's own model, by floor & at Matchlines. Then just remember to unload everything when you close so you open times won't take as long.
Just a quick 2 cents.
(FWIW, I have a very sim system to yours; we plan on switching to Vista 64 around June if all goes correctly. The only upgrade we'll get is the addition of 4 GB of Ram.
A rule of thumb is memory should be about 20 times larger than the total file size)

[RobertB]

A rule of thumb is memory should be about 20 times larger than the total file size)I believe that applies to Revit, but not to AutoCAD-based software.

[david_peterson]

Thanks for the heads up Robert, I did read that in the Revit Forums. I figured that it would apply to all the verticals.
Your data base is smaller in ACA, but the geometry can still get intensive.
The last time I bound up may little old structure model I spoke of in the previous post a little over 50MB for structure alone. My current Revit project, (Much smaller building about 1/4 the size) is sitting about 50MB as well (Without the Arch Model loaded. The Arch model is about 100MB right now)
The nice thing is that I can easily split up an ACA model. Revit isn't quite as good at that yet. 1 building, 1 trade, 1 file.

[jkovarovics]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I almost went back to edit this post to include I'm on Vista 64 and I really like it. I'm in the same boat thinking I would never say that. There's something about it that's much more pleasant, maybe the lack of the abrasive system error sounds.

I like the RAM thought. It's much cheaper than a Quadro. Anyone have any Quadro stories? I have looked and looked for a good solid "it's worth it", and all I see are gamers knocking them, they never learn.

You're right on splitting stuff up as well. I also have started using multiple instances of AutoCAD. One to draw, one to reference, then if I need a specific location I can copypaste a line or something from one to the other. I think it is going to be a matter of dancing the fine line between hardware and managing geometry by limiting how much you have on the screen at once.

I would be willing to build myself a powerhouse of a computer but I hear more "that should be fine" than "yes, it does take a lot of power".

Jesse

[RobertB]

I also have started using multiple instances of AutoCAD.Well, that's going to hurt things (other than reliability) since you are loading the engine twice, using up RAM unnecessarily.

[finney13]

Yeah, it looks like what you have is good, other than needing a 64 bit system. I am running a 64 bit version of XP along with an Nvidia Quadro and my system runs great.

Jesse, I would definately recommend the Quadro line of Graphic cards. Even if you go with like an FX 1700 or 3700. Does not need to be a huge one. I have just seen where it runs much better than the gaming cards.

[jkovarovics]

Cool, thanks for the Quadro wisdom. A FX3800 just came out that looks pretty nice and doesn't have much higher of a price tag than the 3700.

I would have thought too that multiple instances would hurt performance but rather than trying to orbit one drawing with 4 xrefs I have 2 with 2xrefs each. The single drawing takes about a minute before it decides it wants to orbit, each of the two are considerably quicker. Perhaps each engine is taken care of on separate cores of the CPU, not sure.

What I would really love to see Autodesk put out is a breakdown of what operations use what piece of hardware the most. When does a fast CPU benefit vs a good video card vs more RAM vs faster RAM, etc. None of this was much of an issue when 3D wasn't in play. I haven't been at this for very long and I'm still young but I've already seen a huge shift towards 3D coordination and even away from paper documents.

[david_peterson]

What I would love to see is Adesk putting the 3d engine from Navisworks in ACA&Revit.
You can fly through the most complex model with ease with with that program. Super Fast. Then again, I'll look at the 10 year plan and say, Navisworks, Revit, & ACA morph into a new, better program. Take the best of those 3 worlds and you'd have one heck of a great program.

[pipedream345]

I agree with the anwers given here, I loaded an OEM Version of 64 BIT VIsta Business into my workstation and it made a world of difference. Definately upgrade the memory, once Visa 64 is loaded you will find out it will address alot of RAM with AutoCAD MEP 2010. The typical ram usage will be about 3.5 gig total. I used to have a Quadro FX 1500 and it didnot cut the mustard so I moved to a Quadro 4500 which is still a challenge. Play around with different graphics drivers as well some definatly work better than others. You may see AEC objects turn boxy when orbiting but regenerate much faster with certian drivers. Other drivers keep the objects looking relatively normal but are slow to navigate with. Check on Ebay for graphics cards. I added a publication from the Autodesk Subscription center for hardwar performance for Revit Users.

HP xw9400
(2) Opteron 2.2GHZ dual core processors
Quadro 4500
Vista 64 Business
12gb ECC Ram

[david_peterson]

Just a quick note that I heard from my IT guy about Vista. If you are planning a firm wide roll-out, Most are suggesting to just skip vista and take on windows 7 which is almost complete. In a nut shell he told me that Win 7 is Vista that has been fixed.
I don't know if anyone else has heard this but I figured I'd put it out there.