Shared vs Project Parameters for Schedules

[timsea81]

I'm just starting to learn how to do schedules in Revit, and trying to figure out the best way add the parameters I want to show up on my schedule. It seems like I can either use project parameters or shared parameters. I have listed below what my understanding is regarding both of these types and the advantages and disadvantages of either route. I was wondering if someone who knows this program better could look it over and clarify anything I'm misunderstanding, and also give some advice on how to proceed with parameters that I want to show up on a schedule. I am doing mechanical design with Revit. Thanks in advance.

Project Parameters:
- associated with project
- associated with a specific category (air terminals, ducts, etc)
- must apply to all elements in a selected category, for example, project parameters for diffusers will associate with any diffuser brought in to the project

Advantages:
- new families brought in to the project will automatically have the parameters based on their category (air terminal, mechanical equipment, etc)

Disadvantages:
- mechanical equipment will have irrelevant parameters (CFM for pumps, for example)
- we can't use the parameters in tags

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Shared Parameters:
- associated with .txt file
- may or may not apply to all elements of a category

Advantages:
- irrelevant parameters for other mechanical equipment will not show up on those families
- we can use the parameters in tags

Disadvantages:
- we have to apply the parameters to new families we bring in

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I like the idea of using project parameters because it could all be worked in to the template, but I can't find any way around having a parameter I want only for a pump, for example, also show up as a parameter for an air handler. Any ideas? Thanks.

[Mcgregage]

From what it sounds, it would probably be best to used shared parameters to create your project parameters. This way you dont have to weight down your template. more often than not shared parameters are going to be the way to go. hth

[timsea81]

From what it sounds, it would probably be best to used shared parameters to create your project parameters. This way you dont have to weight down your template. more often than not shared parameters are going to be the way to go. hth

Thanks for the response, I'm not entirely sure I understand though. Are you saying you would just use shared parameters associated with each family or is there some other way I might 'use shared parameters to create project parameters'.

[mjdanowski]

Thanks for the response, I'm not entirely sure I understand though. Are you saying you would just use shared parameters associated with each family or is there some other way I might 'use shared parameters to create project parameters'.

I use both, shared parameters in families for some things and project parameters for others. Don't feel you need to "standardize" on one thing. You will find that each project will bring its own requirements.

[timsea81]

Hear's a related questions. If I used the shared parameters, the way I was thinking would be to come up with Groups within the shared parameters .txt file for each of the schedules I might have. Then, as equipment is added to the project, I will be adding the parameters to the those families so that they will show up on the schedules. For example if I add a pump family to the project, I will have to add the parameters in the 'pumps' group to the family.

Is there a way to do this other than go through one at a time? It won't let me select more than one at once from where I am doing it now.

[mjdanowski]

Hear's a related questions. If I used the shared parameters, the way I was thinking would be to come up with Groups within the shared parameters .txt file for each of the schedules I might have. Then, as equipment is added to the project, I will be adding the parameters to the those families so that they will show up on the schedules. For example if I add a pump family to the project, I will have to add the parameters in the 'pumps' group to the family.

Is there a way to do this other than go through one at a time? It won't let me select more than one at once from where I am doing it now.

No, unfortunately, but that is generally how we handle our parameters as far as equipment type is concerned.

[Mcgregage]

From my first post i meant that when creating project parameters and instead of leaving the default family parameter checked, check shared parameter and then apply the one you are looking for.

as for your most recent question, to each his own for shared parameter organization, i know adsk will not be doing it that way though. but yes you can only apply shared parameters one at a time.

now my turn to ask a question, why are you not just applying parameters in your families? unless you are using out of the box content.

[Steve_Stafford]

Shared Parameters are just that "shared" between projects and families. The shared parameter file is a "dictionary", it stores the definitions of information (parameters) that you want to use in either projects or families or both.

When you want a parameter to cause a family to change its physical properties you must use a family parameter.

When you want a project to affect many families at once with the same piece of information but it doesn't actually change the family geometry then a project parameter is the most efficient way to do it.

Now both scenarios can be created using a Shared Parameter which opens the doors to scheduling, tagging and changing the geometry within a family too.

When you store a piece of information in a family it is "trapped" there so to speak. Unless we use a shared parameter and it is also added to a Project as a Project Parameter it won't be available in your schedules.

A tag is also a family. When you want to tag a family according to a parameter in the family it has to be a shared parameter. You use the Shared Parameter file's definition to create the parameter in the family, in the tag family and if necessary in the Project as a Project Parameter.

It can be confusing...should be "simpler" if possible but it isn't yet.

[cporter.207875]

Thanks for the response, I'm not entirely sure I understand though. Are you saying you would just use shared parameters associated with each family or is there some other way I might 'use shared parameters to create project parameters'.

In your project, go to Settings>Project Parameters>choose shared parameters>select the shared parameters that you want added to the project. This way, when you load a new family that doesn't have the parameter built into it, the parameter will be added through the project environment. Unfortunately, this is still going to be added to all families of selected categories. Blah

[timsea81]

now my turn to ask a question, why are you not just applying parameters in your families?

I am. The idea I'm leaning towards is to create groups of parameters that are associated with each schedule. Then, for each commonly used family I am including in the template, I will go through and add these parameters by opening the family, going to 'family types...', and adding the shared parameters. Later, when I'm working on a project that uses some piece of equipment I have not included in template, before loading that family into the project I will add the same parameters. Using Groups to classify the parameters with the schedule the equipment will be listed on will help me keep track of which parameters to add to new equipment.

[timsea81]

Shared Parameters are just that "shared" between projects and families. The shared parameter file is a "dictionary", it stores the definitions of information (parameters) that you want to use in either projects or families or both.

When you want a parameter to cause a family to change its physical properties you must use a family parameter.

When you want a project to affect many families at once with the same piece of information but it doesn't actually change the family geometry then a project parameter is the most efficient way to do it.

Now both scenarios can be created using a Shared Parameter which opens the doors to scheduling, tagging and changing the geometry within a family too.

When you store a piece of information in a family it is "trapped" there so to speak. Unless we use a shared parameter and it is also added to a Project as a Project Parameter it won't be available in your schedules.

A tag is also a family. When you want to tag a family according to a parameter in the family it has to be a shared parameter. You use the Shared Parameter file's definition to create the parameter in the family, in the tag family and if necessary in the Project as a Project Parameter.

It can be confusing...should be "simpler" if possible but it isn't yet.

This clears a lot up. Thanks

[timsea81]

In your project, go to Settings>Project Parameters>choose shared parameters>select the shared parameters that you want added to the project. This way, when you load a new family that doesn't have the parameter built into it, the parameter will be added through the project environment. Unfortunately, this is still going to be added to all families of selected categories. Blah

Okay I think I get it now. This method uses a shared parameter to create a project parameter, right? So my original question then isn't so much shared vs project but rather family vs. project. A shared parameter can either be applied to family or a project. If it is applied to a project, it shows up on all families in the category (all mechanical equipment), but if it is applied to a family, it only appears on that family.

What I want is a project parameter (so I only have to enter it once) that I can pick and choose which families it shows up on (so I can have different parameters for pumps than for air handlers). I take it this is not available in the current version of Revit.

[Steve_Stafford]

You can't focus on sub-types of Mechanical Equipment in the application of parameters. If you just put it in the family then as you've found it isn't something available for your schedule.

Since you are probably trying to get a pump schedule...a motor schedule you'll need to filter your schedules and tolerate the appearance of the extra parameters. For this reason it makes sense to use some naming convention that helps define the parameter's relevance to your families. Such as...Pump - XYZ so that users see it is a pump related value. There are also some overlapping parameters too naturally...it ain't easy!

In my book the whole reporting side of what MEP folks do hasn't been thought through thoroughly enough...yet. Cool three th's $$ words in a row :smile:

[timsea81]

If you just put it in the family then as you've found it isn't something available for your schedule.


But it is on my schedule... Here is exactly what I did:

I started a new project.
I created a new family.
I drew in a random shape.
I clicked 'family types...' on the left
I selected 'Add...' under parameters
I chose the 'Shared Parameter' option
I hit 'select'
In the group that it opened in I hit 'edit'
In the Edit Shared Parameters window I hit 'New' under 'Parameters'
I typed in a name for my generic parameter and hit okay
I hit okay on the 'Edit Shared Parameters' window
I hit okay on the 'Shared Parameters' window (with my new parameter selected)
In the Parameter Properties window I selected 'instance' and hit okay (my new parameter is now listed under 'parameter data')
In the 'Family Types' window my new parameter shows up along with the others, I hit okay
I select 'load into project on the left'

I go back to my project
I go to view-->new--->schedule/quantities and create a mechanical equipment schedule
I hit 'add parameter' in the Schedule Properties window
I choose 'shared parameters' and hit 'select'
I select my new parameter and hit okay
I hit okay on the parameter properties window
I hit okay on the schedule properties window
A new schedule pops up with my new parameter listed, and it's linked to the equipment I put on a floor plan (I can change it either place and if effects both)

Sorry that was so long, if that isn't putting a parameter into a family and then using on a schedule I guess I'm still confused about something.

[Steve_Stafford]

I'm sorry...adding a shared parameter to a family and then adding the family to the project does automatically make it available to appear in your schedule...it just doesn't add it as a Project Parameter, to your project.

Which means that while you can schedule the value for this family you can't alter the same value for other elements in the schedule even though there is a field available for it. The parameter is still "trapped" in the only family you added it to, though editable in the schedule now. In order to have other families share in the parameter and be able to edit them in the schedule you have to add it to all of them individually OR add the shared parameter to your project as a Project Parameter.

Still confused? :smile:

[timsea81]

Still confused? :smile:

I don't think so any more. Thanks again for your help.

[james.klatt]

I am doing my first full revit project with schedules and all. The path I choose was to try to build my families with as many shared parameters as my schedule needs. My steps were to gather all the schedules/tags needed in the project and see what fields I needed. I added those into my families as shared parameters. The only project parameters I used were for the arch side for their room schedule because that is a system family and you cannot modify them.

I think using project parameters for system families and shared parameters for custom/standard families would be the best approach. This helps keep the project parameters a little less cluttered because you don't have the group option like the shared parameter file.

Just my plan for this project.

[ruthellenwilliams]

Revit 2010
View-Schedule-Material Takeoff-MultiCategory
Available fields are listed. Some are Shared Parameters, others are Project Parameters.
Are the others coming from parameters created in families?

[ruthellenwilliams]

Yes, it seems that they are coming from family Identity Data. Names for those parameters (Assembly Code, Description, Keynote, Model, etc.) are the same in doors, walls, windows - so when you are looking at the list of fields for the schedule, you can't tell where the data is coming from. Maybe you don't need to know in order to do the schedule.
However, the file I'm looking at gives me some duplicate names of fields available for the Material Takeoff Schedule - two named "Type." Looks like a problem - is it?

[Bvogt]

I'll chime in while I'm saving to central. I normally use project parameters for space information, like A62 ventilation information etc. The you can create a ventilation table using much of the space data.

For equipment schedules we have created a master shared parameter file with subcataegories like Mech-Airflow, Mech-Cooling, Mech-Heating, Elec-Loads, etc. with many paraemeters under each, like EA-Flow, CC-Total, CC-Sensible, etc. This way they will be available for use over and over. The paramter file will grow with each new familiy you make.

It is a cumbersome task but eventually you will have a good library. Also you can copy-paste schedules form one project to another.

[cgbrown2]

If I setup all of my schedules using project parameters in a project template, how can I get a CFM parameter associated with a connector in a family to schedule?