Large format LCD or Plasma monitors for CAD

[cadkiller]

Group;

Is anyone using large format LCD's or Plasma's for CAD?
I'm looking to get a 42" Plasma and was wondering if anyone is using them for CAD with great success.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4183_156694600,00.html

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

[Mike.Perry]

Hi Edward

Please note I've *moved* this thread from the Coffee Without CAD (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=45) Forum to this one as I feel this particular Forum is a more appropriate place for such a topic (I believe the Coffee Without CAD (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=45) Forum will be spring cleaned once in a while).

Thanks, Mike

Forum Moderator

[BigBopper]

I hate to rain on your fantasy, but...

The most important number in the specs for this monitor is what they list as the "number of pixels", or resolution. 1365 x 768 is very low for modern CAD. My old $150 17" Viewsonic CRT has 1024 x 1280. Don't be mislead by the literature showing a computer screen. This is a HiDef television, not a computer monitor. There is a difference. Don't waste your (or your company's) $6k thinking you will do CAD with this. Instead, waste your money thinking you will have a cool HiDef TV.

Before you drop that kind of cash, take your laptop and a VGA cable to CompUSA and make the sales person demonstrate it for you. Make sure your laptop has already been set up for 1024 x 768, because that's all this screen is capable of.

I have a 61" Samsung HLN617 that supports 1080 x 720, which is the resolution of HiDef television. It too has a VGA and DVI port. I have hooked it up to my computer in PC mode. I would not consider using it as a full time monitor. It is very grainy and difficult to read. DVI mode would not be any better because of the limited resolution of the screen.

The only resolution my big screen accepts in PC mode is 1024 x 768. In that mode, what it is very good at is digital slide shows. I revived my 6 year old Dell laptop from the back of the closet to drive that. You will find very few if any video cards that support 1365 x 768, or for that matter the 16:9 aspect ratio. This means you will see large black bars on both sides. You can probably set it for stretch to wide screen, but then your circles become ellipses.

Heres the back story.
You cannot get far enough back from a 61" screen to use it as a monitor. VGA cables are only 6 feet long. Keyboard cables even less. I have a wireless bluetooth keyboard/mouse that gets freaky at about 8 feet. At that distance its like sitting in the front row at the movies. Every time I want to use the CD, I have to get up and walk three steps. If you think you're going to set this on your desk or the wall behind it, you're just going to end up with a splitting headache day after day.

For CAD, I bought a Viewsonic vp211b for $1050, 21.1 inches, 1600 x 1200 resolution. That makes me feel plenty warm and fuzzy. If I were going to spend $6k on CAD video, I'd buy two Viewsonic 243T's and an ATI Fire GL video card to drive them. For that kind of cash outlay, you better deliver some eye-popping renderings and animated walkthroughs.

[hand471037]

I agree. I once gave a presentation using a in-house Plasma screen at a firm, and it looked horrible due to the lower resolution.

I'd actually recommend, if you're gonna drop that kinda money for a extra-large monitor, to look into the Apple Cinema Displays. They are 'Cinema' format, like the Plasma screen, but are not as big and very high resolution. They work fine with PC's too, for they just have the normal connectors now. Should work with any modern graphics card too. Get a dual-head card, and two of those, and you'll have something many times nicer than a Plasma screen IMHO.

http://www.apple.com/displays/

The 30" runs at 2560 x 1600 optimal resolution. and costs a cool $3400... but when you see one in person, you totally and suddenly feel like that's not an unresonable number. :)

If you wanted something to impress, it would be hard to top it.

[cadkiller]

Jeffrey;

Thanks for that link and BigBopper thanks for that great reply.
I figured so about the Pioneer plasma.

They say it can handle 1920 x 1200 compressed, that's what made me interested.
I called pioneer and asked them about the compressed resolution and what the pixel pitch would be and they couldn't answer my question. They said I have to find a place and test it out to see. What a bunch of bull. They don't list pixel pitch for some strange reason.

I presently have a 21" and a 24" CRT and wanted to add a third flat panel monitor to put in the middle and give me some desk space for my reference drawings. I would love to get that 30" Apple if it only were PC compatible.

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

[cadkiller]

Group;

Now I'm really upset. Not only does a Mac have the fastest personal computers; but they also have the largest flat panel monitors available.

PS: I think I need a Mac version of ADT 2005.

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

[hand471037]

CADKiller, those Apple cinemas are PC compatable. That's what I was saying. They have standard Digital ports. I've heard of a lot of PC people using them, for the are perfect for movie editing.

And screw a Mac version of ADT 2005. Give us a Mac version of Revit! >:)

[aaronrumple]

...and a $3000 rebate toward a Cinema display with every new purchase of Revit OS X 7.1

[cadkiller]

Jeffrey;

They don't indicate that the 30" is PC compatible. The following just says the 20" and 23" are. The 30" has a DVI port; but needs a special video card to run it. Is the video card PC compatible?

Connect With Pure Digital DVI

Give your PowerBook G4 a second display when you’re not on the road. Now you can connect the 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display or 20-inch Apple Cinema Display directly to any PowerBook G4 with a DVI port. This DVI connection (http://www.apple.com/displays/digital.html) also removes all barriers to using an Apple display with a PC. If your graphics card supports DVI with DDC technology for widescreen viewing, you should be able to use these two displays with a PC.

PS: Easy on us guys that are still using ADT and haven't made the jump. This was and still is a big blow for us. Not to know the future of ADT or our investment. I have the following questions for you, if you don't mind answering.

Will the Revit models be of any use to the steel sub contractor and all the other subs that need to use it? Or is it just for design and build type companies that will do the complete job from start to finish? Can Revit piece detail steel? Can Revit model and piece detail steel stairs? Can the model be transfered to another 3D CAD program with all the intelligent information for automated piece details? Now they come out with Revit saying that Autocad wasn't meant for parametric modeling. So why is it that they have add on programs that are parametric and work well like Advanced steel?

Don't mind me I just got a little upset when you mentioned Revit.

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

[hand471037]

Jeffrey;

They don't indicate that the 30" is PC compatible. The following just says the 20" and 23" are.

oh. sorry there. I know people that are using the smaller ones, I incorrectly assumed that the new big one would be the same. But it needs a special card. I don't know if the card apple sells is compatable, but they use AGP cards like PC's do, so you probably can find a card that works with it for the PC. Mac hardware is a lot less specialized than it used to be. :)



PS: Easy on us guys that are still using ADT and haven't made the jump. This was and still is a big blow for us. Not to know the future of ADT or our investment. I have the following questions for you, if you don't mind answering.

Will the Revit models be of any use to the steel sub contractor and all the other subs that need to use it? Or is it just for design and build type companies that will do the complete job from start to finish? Can Revit piece detail steel? Can Revit model and piece detail steel stairs? Can the model be transfered to another 3D CAD program with all the intelligent information for automated piece details? Now they come out with Revit saying that Autocad wasn't meant for parametric modeling. So why is it that they have add on programs that are parametric and work well like Advanced steel?

Don't mind me I just got a little upset when you mentioned Revit.

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

whoa there cowboy. I just said it because I'm a long time Revit user who in the past has very vocally called for a OS X version of Revit. But, to answer your questions:

1. The Revit models are useful to everyone. They can be easly exported to DWG, and the schedules can be exported to Excel, and the whole damn thing can be exported to Access. I see no reason why Steel Subs wouldn't like getting *more* information, as well as better quality DWGs too, from a Revit user exporting DWG's and Schedules than a normal AutoCAD user just handing over messy DWG files.

2. Revit is really for anyone within the Construction Industry. It doesn't have a full toolset for MEP folks, and only meets the documentation needs of Structural Guys (no anylisis), but both of those things are in the pipe from what I understand. So Design-only, Design-build, and build-only can all use and benifit from Revit.

3. Revit can detail steel. Revit can detail anything.

4. *sigh* Yes Revit can model and detail steel stairs.

5. As for exporting to another software for automated details, not that I know of. you can certainly export the model to any other 3D software you wish. But seeing that you can do the details within Revit, and with a little work have them be almost automatic, there isn't much reason to export to some other software just for detailing.

6. the term 'parametric' gets thrown around a lot. Yes there are add-ons for AutoCAD that *can* do some level of these things, but it's not what AutoCAD was built for. Those add-ons are very market-specific, and if you want to do something they weren't built for you simply can't. Revit is much more general-purpose in it's intent, and everything is not only parametric but also bi-directional. This makes for a *huge* difference, both in the capability of the system and how you work with it.

And dude, please, download Revit and at least try it out. No one is ending ADT's or AutoCAD's life, and the program works very well for many people, even if it's not what you need right now. Calm down. Different tools for different folks. Also Revit is part of Autodesk, so getting upset when it's mentioned on the AUGI site is really silly.

get over it.

[Kirky]

you just need a dual DVI card to run the apple 30" on a pc. Very nice product and surprisingly well priced all things considered. I talked my self out of buying 2 of them, just still just too expensive. By comparison I can purhase six CRT 21" monitors or five 20" (1600x1200 Res) LCDs for the same money.

[cadkiller]

Jeffrey;

Please excuse me. I just got ticked when you said forget about ADT 2005 and mentioned Revit. It reminded me of an article I read about ADT vs Revit. In that article Autodesk was unsure of the long term future for ADT. It's just the feeling I get, that Autodesk will be forgetting about ADT.

PS: It's hard when you invest so much time, money and effort into a program and you find out that the program is being replaced by something completely different.

From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com (http://precisiondraftingllc.com/)

[cadkiller]

Kirky;

Yes that is a very sweet monitor and it comes with a slick Anodized aluminum case.

PS: That 30" monitor needs that special video card to be able to deliver such high resolution. The dual DVI slots on the video card allow for you to have two 30" monitors. Man that would be nice to have; but not for $7,000 plus.
From;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC
http://precisiondraftingllc.com

[hand471037]

Cadkiller, no prob, don't sweat it. I only said 'forget ADT' because I'm a longtime Revit user, never really found much value in ADT, and would rather have Autodesk make Revit for the Mac- not because I honestly feel that Autodesk should drop ADT tomorrow. Revit & ADT are really different tools focused on different tasks- this whole 'ADT vs. Revit' war is silly in the extreme, for as soon as you work, really work, with both products you quickly realize that they are really intended for two completely different goals. My *personal* take on it is that ADT is all about making people able to work faster within an AutoCAD environment and about the API(s) that allow for extension (such as very market-specific things, like the steel program you use). Revit is all about making people able to quickly put together fully coordinated drawing sets with less error and to manage complex building information. There is some overlap there, sure, but work with both and both your fears of ADT going away and the attitude that 'only one may live' with both quickly disappear- I assure you. :-)

[hand471037]

you just need a dual DVI card to run the apple 30" on a pc. Very nice product and surprisingly well priced all things considered. I talked my self out of buying 2 of them, just still just too expensive. By comparison I can purhase six CRT 21" monitors or five 20" (1600x1200 Res) LCDs for the same money.

Yeah, while the Mac stuff is still a premium price, it has become a lot more reasonable than it was a few years back. Now you an pick up a very decent Mac for less than a similarly speced out Dell. Also earlier this year we bought my wife an 14" iBook for like $1200, and it's actually much nicer in every way than my 15" Sager that cost twice as much. Better case, better design, same DVD/CD-R, same memory, better wifi, much better OS, much better battery life, much better heat output; the only thing my laptop has over it is that it's faster, and has a slightly better screen. That's just about it, otherwise my laptop looks like a Pinto next to a BMW... lol

[JTF]

I'm a little confused as to which software you use Cadkiller.

Throughout this post it sounds as if you are using ADT but your profile says you use Revit.

Have you made the jump to Revit since your last post to this thread?


Never mind about a reply I see on your web site you made the right choice.:-)

[cadkiller]

JTF;

I'm still using ADT fulltime for my day to day work and learning Revit on a parttime basis.
The learning curve for Revit is complex without formal training; but am able to do some simple stuff at the present. I'm working on modeling my house and will do my brothers and a couple of friends to get some good practise. There is quite a bit of setup to be able to do what I want to do for my stair work.

PS: I'm saving money for my new RevitKiller system. I plan on getting dual 30" Apple LCD's and a 64 bit compatiable system and OS to go with it. I will post some screen shots of her when I get it.

[JTF]

JTF;

I'm still using ADT fulltime for my day to day work and learning Revit on a parttime basis.
The learning curve for Revit is complex

I was using ADT before I made the switch to Revit 2 years ago and never looked back.

I pumped out my first house in the first month of using Revit and must say the feel and look of the drawings were far better looking then any I had ever did in ADT.

So in saying Revit has a complex learning curve for me is hard to believe. As I am also self taught in both ADT and Revit.

I am forced once in awhile to use AutoCad to clean up and help finish other peoples work and found Revit had helped me to produce better looking Autocad drawings.

Just my thoughts.