Ideas Needed - Projects in Multi-Engr. Discpline

[Clinton.Hill]

I need ideas on how to use the project feature in a non-traditional application of Inventor: a multi-disciplinary chemical process plant design environment.:shock:

BACKGROUND:

I am just learning Inventor Routed Systems 2010
I am the sole CAD operator in a chemical plant engr. dept.
I must rely on AutoCAD and Inventor - no Revit here
Is it advantageous to set up a project for each of the following engr. disciplines?
To include:

Structural
MechanicalThe idea is to set up projects where I can rename layers and other drafting standard settings that will.... 1.) appear like my standard DWG-based hardcopy and 2.) will use at least some of the the same layer names.

The main goal is to be able to generate parametric-based 3D models in Inventor and transfer these 3D objects into other DWG-based applications such as the forthcoming release of Autodesk 3D Plant.

[pauldoubet]

This may not answer your question but here is my advice. I have been using Inventor since R1 and exclusively since R4. I no longer think of anything in terms of layers. This is Inventor, not AutoCAD and the two products just don't work the same and they have completely different approaches to accomplishing the end result which is a paper drawing.

There are tools and options available in Inventor that eliminate the need to even think about layers in my opinion. When I made the switch to Inventor from MDT I never used the dwg file format again, I detailed everything in the idw files. I would recommend you do the same thing, especially if you only need to exchange a 2D format with others.

If you have not had formal training I recommend you do that. I see too many self taught users who are not making the most of the Inventor software because they can't get away from their habit of how they did things with AutoCAD. If you need further assistance please let me know. I have been doing contract product design and consulting (including training) for the last 17 years. I did a three story addition to the Kodak factory in Greeley, CO some years back that included over 400 pieces of structural steel in 3D.

From your description I think you only need one project file with a directory setup to handle the Structural files in one folder and the Mechanical files in another folder.

Hope this helps, Paul

[jguest]

This is Inventor, not AutoCAD and the two products just don't work the same and they have completely different approaches to accomplishing the end result which is a paper drawing.

You make a good point there Paul, it took a while for users here to get their head out of the "AutoCAD" space and into the "Inventor" space.

There are tools and options available in Inventor that eliminate the need to even think about layers in my opinion. When I made the switch to Inventor from MDT I never used the dwg file format again, I detailed everything in the idw files. I would recommend you do the same thing, especially if you only need to exchange a 2D format with others.

We, use Inventor exclusively for all of our mechanical drawings and any structural work that is done in house as well (we're a chemical plant, too), but we still use AutoCAD for our P&ID's. I haven't seen Inventor used for P&ID's yet, but an add-in that could generate usable P&ID's from Inventor's 3D piping generated in Routed Systems would be awesome!!

If you have not had formal training I recommend you do that. I see too many self taught users who are not making the most of the Inventor software because they can't get away from their habit of how they did things with AutoCAD.

This, too, is a very good point. We had some training very early on, and one of the first things the trainer said was "Forget everything you know about AutoCAD - this is Inventor!"

From your description I think you only need one project file with a directory setup to handle the Structural files in one folder and the Mechanical files in another folder.

Not trying to shoot you down here Paul, but ask a genuine question; would the above approach truly be workable in a Facilities Management type application?

Presently we have over 13,000 inventor part and assembly files, contained within almost 1,700 directories. At the moment we use one Inventor 'Project' (IPJ file) per capital project or cost centre, with our IPJ's being stored at the top level and the part and assembly files being stored in a file structure defined by physical location within the various plant areas. This seems to work quite well at the moment, but it may or may not be the best approach when using Inventor in an FM environment.

Personally, I would have expected that an IPJ that had parts running into the tens of thousands would either be painfully slow to work with or horribly unstable, but I would be glad to be proven wrong there as I could conceive some significant advantages to being able to use the approach you describe.

Just my 2 cents...

Jon.

[pauldoubet]

I don't pretend to tell someone exactly how to manage their projects, but obviously they would need folders and sub directories that fit there particular situation. Standing by the fact that you only need one project file. I know users who only have one project file and they place it in the folder they choose.

Paul

[jguest]

I don't pretend to tell someone exactly how to manage their projects, but obviously they would need folders and sub directories that fit there particular situation.

No, nor would I. Things like Directory Structure are going to be peculiar to a given company, the type of work they are doing, etc.

Standing by the fact that you only need one project file. I know users who only have one project file and they place it in the folder they choose.

My query was more to the effect of 'How do you go with the one project file once you have tens of thousands of files?'

Do you know if you see any performance penalties? I know that once you get up around a couple of thousand parts in an assembly you can see some serious performance degradation if you haven't been very careful with how you constrain things. What I'm wondering is this; are there similar disadvantages to having tens of thousands of parts & assemblies within the one project?

[pauldoubet]

My query was more to the effect of 'How do you go with the one project file once you have tens of thousands of files?'

Do you know if you see any performance penalties?[/I]

The following document explains single project files in a very clear manner.

http://teknigroup.com/AU2007

I don't believe there are any performance penalties. At least I have not experienced any that I believe are related to using this type of approach.

See this thread for some related discussion:

http://discussion.autodesk.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=738833&tstart=30

Paul

[Clinton.Hill]

I apologize for any perceived lack of interest. My notification settings that I have historically depended on aren't working correctly at my company.

These points are VERY valuable and practical. Thanks for the input and dialog so far. I will peruse the links and may have additional questions.

Some points I would like to include:


The use of 3D parametric models is not established and may take a while to be valued as things have been done piecemeal 'project by project' basis for years by the exclusive use of AutoCAD 2D and more than a few building architectural and structural designs still on manual drawings via several 2D-design based consutling engineering firms as well as contract drafters over the years. As the first full-time drafter since the 80's and first full-time CAD designer, I hope to start a new trend and things move slowly -- at first any way.
We are eagerly awating the AutoCAD 3D Plant release. The engr. mgr. wants to keep things in the DWG file format as the first and foremost item and currently use a specialized Autodesk P&ID 2010 process diagramming software. The mgr. and I look forward to any linking capabilities between the diagrams produced in it and 3D models generated in future software (hint, hint). That pretty much is the bottom line and a reason he is not enthused at all about using Inventor to any great degree.I hope this helps define the environment that I am in. I would welcome any comments and will try to navigate here more often.

Thanks gentlemen,