Drafter -vs- Power User

[rad.77676]

After reading the salary survey for 04, I would be interested in hearing opinions, salary differences, etc....

It's been reletively established how much a drafter is worth, so my question to you is how much is a drafter/Lisp/VBA "Power User" Worth.

Should a drafter that doesn't know anything about lisp or other programming tools be paid more than someone who writes lisp to increase production?

Some people are happy just drafting, but should someone who puts in extra effort be compensated. If so, how much?

Thanx,
Rob

[CADKitty]

Ooo, ooo, if LISP gets you more money, I want to know about it, too!! :mrgreen:

How about those of us who wind up doing some tech support, too? Shouldn't that count for something?
(I've really got to go read that article...still hasn't come by snail mail...)

[Globey]

Last I check Drafters around here...without special skills such as LISP...just doing drafting make between $14 to $16 bucks an hour ($16 if your pretty good at b/sing your way through the interview!)

[CADKitty]

Last I check Drafters around here...without special skills such as LISP...just doing drafting make between $14 to $16 bucks an hour ($16 if your pretty good at b/sing your way through the interview!)
Dang, that's more than I got as an intern! :shock:

Hey Bill, got any openings? ;)

[thomas.stright]

Dang, that's more than I got as an intern! :shock:


Our 2nd yr Apprentices get $16/hr...

[Globey]

Dang, that's more than I got as an intern! :shock:

Hey Bill, got any openings? ;)
Well not here...but there are MEP firms in the state that would pay that much...You can get the oddball $12 bucks an hour job, but that just means you didnt look hard enough....the only problem is with the economy, alot of places aren't hiring drafters currently....we may be hiring someone later this year...but its up in the air, since its a specialized field, and hard to train someone just off the street....

[thomas.stright]

...we may be hiring someone later this year...but its up in the air, since its a specialized field, and hard to train someone just off the street....

Same here it's cheaper for us in the long run to take a jouneyperson that makes scale and train them in cad rather than get a cad monkey and hope they follow directions.

[Phil Ferguson]

Same here it's cheaper for us in the long run to take a jouneyperson that makes scale and train them in cad rather than get a cad monkey and hope they follow directions.
Yep...Our 'Lead Technicians' have experience in surveying or construction or both.

[thomas.stright]

Yep...Our 'Lead Technicians' have experience in surveying or construction or both.

For Me to bring a field hand into our planning department he must have experience as a field foreman or be an exceptional apprentice.

[greg.robson]

To answer your question rad.77676 - you should be compensated for your additional skills if your company wants those skills and is using them. Does your compnay know you have those skills? Make it a point to tell them at your next evaluation.

[rad.77676]

Greg,

Thank's for reading my questions!

The reason I posted this was to get an idea of how much people thought a power user/programmer would be worth to their company compared to someone who knows only enough about the software to draft.

The company I work for knows about my skills, but I am aware that other "drafters" make more based on seniority.

Just trying to gather data for reviews!

Thanx

[bhakj]

you should be paid for your abilities and talents but also you need to be able to kiss a**.

[Robert.Hall]

Drafting skills have nothing to do with gaining a higher compensation.
Drafting is mearly the tool that is used to convey your ideas.
If you are good with lisp, good for you........at the end of the
day it doesn't help me ensure I have shipped good product to my
customer. Knowledge of the current business merits a higher payrate.

[Li'l Crys]

...just doing drafting make between $14 to $16 bucks an hour

Geez, if that's what the norm is out there, then I am never quitting my job.

[Globey]

Geez, if that's what the norm is out there, then I am never quitting my job.
For just straight drafting working off of redlines? I personally think its pretty good money...if your going to pay someone more then that, just for drafting, no design specialty...your throwing your money away when there are alot of people who would work for less....Once you get into full time design, then I can definitely understand at minimum, depending on the size of the office...$20+ an hour...

[CADKitty]

The reason I posted this was to get an idea of how much people thought a power user/programmer would be worth to their company compared to someone who knows only enough about the software to draft.

The company I work for knows about my skills, but I am aware that other "drafters" make more based on seniority.

Just trying to gather data for reviews!
Ok, ok, joking aside:

IMHO, anyone who can not only draft, but create anything from a custom toolbar to macros to LISP/VBA is an asset to the team. That being said, seniority is also a consideration. If you can create a drawing with no "shortcuts" in the same amount of time I can with "shortcuts", then you must be doing something right! Now imagine if you taught that senior drafter LISP and the rest - now that would make ACAD scream!

Are you using your skills to create easier/faster/more efficient ways for your company to draft? If so, then you should be compensated. If, however, it's simply part of your drafting style, then you may not be. But hey, never hurts to ask, right? ;)

[Steve_Bennett]

You also have to consider the mentality of the management too.
1) Some managers think they are doing a good job if they can hire a person for cheap & keep 'em cheap.
2) Others try to elminate turn over so, in turn, they actually reward productivity & employees who make a valuable contribution to the company.
That being said, you would want to tailior your approach accordingly.

[Sid]

I will give my $0.02 here.
My sr drafters make about $21/hr. That comes from years of experience and the ability to do some design work. They pretty much know how to customize toolbars and I have taught them some menu customization. They do not know much lisp, if any.
You also have to take into consideration the different markets. Pay here is Louisiana will be lower than that of NY or CAL.

[thomas.stright]

You also have to take into consideration the different markets.
True, Scale here for a Jouneyperson is $29/hr + Bennies

[Ms. Serene]

the scale out here seems to be extremely wide, in the past 2 years I have made anywhere from 13 to 22.50.

[Sid]

True, Scale here for a Jouneyperson is $29/hr + Bennies

Yes I forgot to mention the benefits. We have a great package here.

[jcfeeken]

I think it's hard to say since their are so many factors involved. For instance I had 5 years of Cad experience before I started my current job, but I knew my company's product for a decade, so there was very little training involved. Also I take on the role as teacher and help desk since I am the most computer literate, so is it fair to pay me by what a book says? I guess this is where interviews come into play. Just an after thought, but do most of you stay with your current employer, or do you skip around?

[Steve_Bennett]

I think it's hard to say since their are so many factors involved. For instance I had 5 years of Cad experience before I started my current job, but I knew my company's product for a decade, so there was very little training involved. Also I take on the role as teacher and help desk since I am the most computer literate, so is it fair to pay me by what a book says? I guess this is where interviews come into play. Just an after thought, but do most of you stay with your current employer, or do you skip around?
Hmmm... Sounds like you're my clone, but at another company.

[Sid]

Just an after thought, but do most of you stay with your current employer, or do you skip around?

I started here in 1986. Only the second office in almost 19 years. Always been on the 4th floor.

[CADKitty]

Just an after thought, but do most of you stay with your current employer, or do you skip around?
Had two temp internships before this one, which turned into a full-time job....that was 4 years ago, and I have no plans of leaving anytime soon.

[Robert.Hall]

I read about my company in an engineering magazine. Never thought I would end up
working where I am at seeing as how it is an up and coming technology and all.....now I am working for one of the most successful companies in Automotive manufacturing in the past 5 years, lucky me. I also had about 5 years AutoCad experience going in which helped out a ton. I also have a degree in Product Design. Even with both of those I had to work my way up.

[Ms. Serene]

I read about my company in an engineering magazine. Never thought I would end up
working where I am at seeing as how it is an up and coming technology and all.....now I am working for one of the most successful companies in Automotive manufacturing in the past 5 years, lucky me. I also had about 5 years AutoCad experience going in which helped out a ton. I also have a degree in Product Design. Even with both of those I had to work my way up.
I have 15 years experience and everytime I change jobs I have to start over again (I end up having to change jobs every 5 years). It drives me nuts.

[CADNate]

but do most of you stay with your current employer, or do you skip around?
This is the only company that I have worked for in the mechanical, engineering field.. I have been here for five years.
As far as salary goes how do you find out what your fellow workers are making? It's kinda hush hush around here.

[scwegner]

How about those of us who wind up doing some tech support, too? Shouldn't that count for something?]

Seriously! After all the times I've rescued designers from themselves I've probably saved the company a whole bunch in their time and the cost of outside tech support. Do I see it? No. Is it in my job desciption? Guess.
The way I see it, a job should be interesting, pay well, and/or offer training and experience. If I were getting just one of the three I'd be happy.

[mom of 3]

what your fellow workers are making? It's kinda hush hush around here.
it's supposed to be around here - could cost you your job, but there is a certain part timer here - FREAK - who is constantly complaining............then she thinks she can ask me what I make??????? :screwy: oh, no........not gonna lose my job, freaky cow woman!

[Globey]

Seriously! After all the times I've rescued designers from themselves I've probably saved the company a whole bunch in their time and the cost of outside tech support. Do I see it? No. Is it in my job desciption? Guess.
Considering a designer generally wears many different hats besides that of a designer....Meeting with Architects, Vendors, Clients, GC's, MEP firms, Equipment manifests; Horse Power Estimates; Travel....along with coming up with last minute changes to the design based upon some drastic Architectural changes...it certainly is nice to have a Cad Operator who can effectively handle tech support, and also catch erroneous errors that can snowball...you may think that its not noticed...but trust me...it is DEFINITELY noticed....

[scwegner]

Considering a designer generally wears many different hats besides that of a designer....Meeting with Architects, Vendors, Clients, GC's, MEP firms, Equipment manifests; Horse Power Estimates; Travel....along with coming up with last minute changes to the design based upon some drastic Architectural changes...it certainly is nice to have a Cad Operator who can effectively handle tech support, and also catch erroneous errors that can snowball...you may think that its not noticed...but trust me...it is DEFINITELY noticed....

Oh I know they notice. They can't help but notice. It would be nice if they were a little more generous in showing their appreciation, that's all.

[CADNate]

it's supposed to be around here - could cost you your job, but there is a certain part timer here - FREAK - who is constantly complaining............then she thinks she can ask me what I make??????? :screwy: oh, no........not gonna lose my job, freaky cow woman!

After looking at the salary survey 04. I fell good about what I make.
As far as answering the original thread question about Drafter or Power User, I’m called on to be both. I send my time between drafting and designing and I work on my department standards, training our coops, a little bit of programming, maintain the plotter ect… I am part of a team that does in house training for all the drafter/ designers and the engineers who use CAD.
There is only one full time person who has less experience than I do, but I’m the only one who goes to out side training and reads cadalyst and most importantly AUGI.

[greg.robson]

Oh I know they notice. They can't help but notice. It would be nice if they were a little more generous in showing their appreciation, that's all.
That's a nice thought, but not necessarily how the people signing the checks see it. (My wife's employer doesn't offer any retirement benefits because they "don't believe in it." She's the Administrator of a medical care center.) Each employer is as different and each employee is different. Sometimes there's good matches, sometimes not. Every workplace has it's own "situations." If those situations are intolerable, then it's probably time to look of other work.

I have never been afraid to change jobs if I thought it was best for where I wanted to be. I have been in the position of hiring and firing. I have been through booms and busts in the local construction industry. I have borrowed money to keep the doors open. And I have given generous (a relative term) bonuses. It isn't an easy balance.

[thomas.stright]

As far as salary goes how do you find out what your fellow workers are making? It's kinda hush hush around here.
All pay scales are set by our Union so that part is easy to figure out..... It's the over scale pay and extras that are different for everyone.

[Robert.Hall]

I have 15 years experience and everytime I change jobs I have to start over again (I end up having to change jobs every 5 years). It drives me nuts.

Ive at least got some comfort knowing I am in a business that is doing nothing but growing and I was just about in on the ground floor. My wife is in a similar situation and both of us are doing extremely well. Places like this are still out there..........do some research on the market of the product a company makes before you decide to seek employment.

[CADKitty]

Oh I know they notice. They can't help but notice. It would be nice if they were a little more generous in showing their appreciation, that's all.
I'll give that an "AMEN!!"

I know the users appreciate/notice it, but it'd be nice if the higher-ups made a mention of it every once in a while....

[CADNate]

For those of you who have expressed that they do some type of AutoCAD teaching, are any of you Autodesk certified? If you are do you know what the requirements are for becoming certified? What are the benefits? Thanks.

[jcfeeken]

The only thing Ive used to compare salaries is the AUGIWORLD Magazine when they had the salary survey. But I don't try to compete with the Jones's, I just want want the number to keep going up :-)

[rad.77676]

Jcfeeken,
I agree, but it's not about competition, it's about getting adequate compensation for the amount of effort you put into your work.
Some people come to work and just draft, others spend every extra minute thinking of ways to increase production and save the client money, as well as make money for the company they work for.
So how much would that be worth to you?

[Robert.Hall]

Jcfeeken,
I agree, but it's not about competition, it's about getting adequate compensation for the amount of effort you put into your work.
Some people come to work and just draft, others spend every extra minute thinking of ways to increase production and save the client money, as well as make money for the company they work for.
So how much would that be worth to you?

Hey that sounds just like me!!!!!

As for the Salary survey, do you really make 6 figures or were some people just smoking something when they filled out the survey?????

Speak your name, speak your name!!!

[CADNate]

Hey that sounds just like me!!!!!

As for the Salary survey, do you really make 6 figures or were some people just smoking something when they filled out the survey?????

Speak your name, speak your name!!!

Yeah... I have at least a 6 figure... I try to work out at least 3 times a week. I run and bicycle on a regular bases... try to eat right, avoid fast foo..... oh wait a second... salary survey!....6 figures... oh no. Yeah speak up!!!!! What the deal? Share the secrets.

[Wanderer]

Hey that sounds just like me!!!!!

As for the Salary survey, do you really make 6 figures or were some people just smoking something when they filled out the survey?????

Speak your name, speak your name!!!
I am curious about that too. lol. obviously there is no identifying info linked to the survey results... otherwise some guys would have found themselves seriously hit on by the survey manager... ;)

[baechlerj]

As for the Salary survey, do you really make 6 figures or were some people just smoking something when they filled out the survey?????

Speak your name, speak your name!!!

I make 7 figures, if you count the .00
:smile:

[CADNate]

I make 7 figures, if you count the .00
:smile:

:lol:If it makes you feel better...sure. :-D

[thomas.stright]

I stay on the edge of 6 figures most years, Sometimes just under, Sometimes just over. Being a Mechanical Coordinator with 20 yrs experience helps alot tho.... Having the right talent in DC you can pretty much get a very sweet deal.

[Homerloew]

I stay on the edge of 6 figures most years, Sometimes just under, Sometimes just over. Being a Mechanical Coordinator with 20 yrs experience helps alot tho.... Having the right talent in DC you can pretty much get a very sweet deal.

Tom's buying at AU next year!!!! :Puffy:

[CADKitty]

I stay on the edge of 6 figures most years, Sometimes just under, Sometimes just over. Being a Mechanical Coordinator with 20 yrs experience helps alot tho.... Having the right talent in DC you can pretty much get a very sweet deal.
:shock: Tom 'ol buddy, you're my new best friend...here, have a :beer:

~grumbles~ I get six figures, all right...just add the .00....

[CADNate]

I stay on the edge of 6 figures most years, Sometimes just under, Sometimes just over. Being a Mechanical Coordinator with 20 yrs experience helps alot tho.... Having the right talent in DC you can pretty much get a very sweet deal.

As a Mechanical Coordinatior how do you use ACAD? Do you do shop drawings or is it feild coordination? I work for a Mechanical contractor and we have Mechanical Coordinatiors but they do not use CAD at all. Thanks.

[thomas.stright]

As a Mechanical Coordinatior how do you use ACAD? Do you do shop drawings or is it feild coordination? I work for a Mechanical contractor and we have Mechanical Coordinatiors but they do not use CAD at all. Thanks.
We create both shop and field coordination drawings, And when needed I do contract drawings for design build projects.

[stusic]

I live in Macon, which has one of the lowest costs of living in the country. An entry-level drafter will make around $8-$9/hour, $16/hour is about the ceiling for a senior drafter. This is excluding any 3D work or specialized skills. Basic 2D drafting, redlines and such.

Of course, you go to Atlanta (about an hour away) and that entry-level number jumps to around $12-$13/hour and a senior can make up to $26/hour or so.