Data References create Style Errors

[WScottAllenPE]

I have one drawing containing my pipe networks. The parts list and part styles were dragged in from my template drawing. So, I can swap a part to a five foot manhole with a five-foot manhole style. The structure property will show a 60" diameter MH with the style MH-5, and a 60" diameter MH block will be inserted on the plan and profile. Everything just as I want and expect.

In my plan and profiles, I data referenced the pipe networks in to add them to the profiles. As in the pipe network drawing, the parts list and part styles were dragged in from my template drawing, so they are identical. The structure properties will correctly show a 60" diameter MH, but the style has been assigned as MH-4, and it will insert a 48" diameter MH block.

This is just an example, and it happens with all types of structures. I can manually change it to the correct style and it is OK. But it won't come in the correct way to start with.

What I have found is that, in my parts list, the MH-4 and MH-5 are in the same catalog (Round Manholes). Whenever the network includes any part from this catalog set (Round Manholes), it will always revert to the first style in the list (MH-4). The same problem exists with catalog Square Inlet, Round Inlet, Water Valves, etc. Any part in a category will have the correct property size, but will always be assigned the style of the first part in the list.

Any body know how to fix?

I'm using Civil 3D 2011 on XP.

Thanks

Scott

[civil3Dguide]

Questions:
Is the MH-4 the default style to be used in?
And, if so, if you change the default style to be used first does it then use the correct style?

[WScottAllenPE]

Christian,

No, my default style is set to Standard for everything. I double checked.

Like I said in the last paragraph, it is not always the MH-4 style, but it is the style of the first part in each catalog.

MH-4 style for all Round Manholes
Inlet-2x3 for Square Inlet
Inlet-24Inch for Round Inlet
WV-1Inch for Water Valves, etc.

Scott

[MattAnderson]

Scott -

That vaguely sounds familiar... Could you open an Autodesk Support request with the details so that Support & QA can take a look?

Matthew Anderson, PE

[WScottAllenPE]

Matt,

I'll go through my IT to do so.

BUT - Latest update. My pipes also appear to be doing something similar. My pipe network in my pipe drawing has a 12" pipe, as per Pipe Properties. In my data referenced drawing, the pipe is listed as a 30" pipe.

I'll post when I find out something.

Scott

[smcgypsea]

any resolutions to this?

[WScottAllenPE]

No resolution.

I did open a support request through Autodesk. They asked for the drawings and I've sent the drawings three times now. At first, thought they were ignoring it since 2012 was out and we were on 2011.

However, we have since switched to 2012, and I have the same problem. Autodesk was told this and was sent the drawings again in 2012 format, but I have received no response. I had to put this project on the back burner without an answer, but I'll have to get back to it soon, and figure something out.

Does your request mean that you have the same problem? Because my history seems to be for problems that no one else has or are rare enough that no one else seems to have, and are too difficult to give good answers to. It's always nice to know it I'm alone in my problem or not (it makes me know what level of insanity I'm currently living at).

Scott

[WScottAllenPE]

I know the cause everybody! :p Now I just need help with a workflow to fix this problem.:?

Let's say you are working in your Pipes.dwg. You need a new structure "STR M" that is a 39.37 inch manhole. So what do you do? You open your Pipe Network Parts List and add a new structure "Structure - Manhole - Meter" under components "Manholes". That new structure doesn't have a style, so you create a new style "Style - Manhole - Meter". You insert your manhole, it looks good, and you save your drawing.

Next, you want to insert your new structure in your Profile.dwg. So what do you do? You open the Profile.dwg, right? Well, C3D at this point says:

"Hey, this STR M is a new manhole. It is supposed to be a Structure-Manhole-Meter with a style of Style-Manhole-Meter. But wait, I can't find that structure in my parts list or as a structure style. So, I guess I'll just assign STR-M the first style I have under the components Manholes, which is MH-4. That'll make my Engineer happy!"

Well Civil 3D, you did not make me happy. For a structure, yes, I can import the parts list and new style from the other drawing, select STR M, and manually change the style under the Structure Properties. (Although it is very inconvenient, especially if you have added a few dozen new structures consisting of several different styles.)

But I am even more unhappy when it comes to pipes. Say that you created a Pipe - Meter instead of a Manhole - Meter. Well, C3D does the same thing, and assigns it the first style it finds as a replacement. However, you don't have the option to select the pipe and change its style in order to change the size of the pipe. So, your STR M (a 39.37 inch pipe) was just assigned the style of a 12 inch pipe, displays as a 12 inch pipe, says it is a 39.37 inch pipe, and CANNOT BE CHANGED. No, C3D, that makes me very unhappy.

Now, I have two work arounds, presuming you remember all of this when you have this issue.

The first if to open Profile.dwg BEFORE you add your new structure, part, and style in the Pipes.dwg. Then you can save the Pipes.dwg, and import the parts list and style into the Profile.dwg. Then, and only then, are you safe to syncronize the pipe network or to re-open the Profile.dwg.

The second work around is to rename Pipes.dwg (to for example PipeTemp.dwg). Then, when you open the Profile.dwg, it cannot find Pipes.dwg to bring in the new structures. This gives you the opportunity to bring in the style and parts list and save Profile.dwg. Then you can rename PipeTemp.dwg and reopen Profile.dwg to establish your new structures.

But, if you have more than just Profile.dwg that you've got the pipe network in, you have to do it for each drawing. Now that is inconvenient (since I have 25 plan and profile drawings with the pipe network data referenced).

So, basically, the problem is that by opening the file in order to bring in your new styles for your new part, you have to bring in your new parts first which gives them the wrong style.

So, does anyone have any suggestions for a good workflow to deal with this issue?

Thanks,
Scott

[mjfarrell]

Have you looked at the settings for XML Parts Swapping swapping rules under the settings tab?

I'm not sure if this is going to totally resolve your issue, or have any impact at all...however it could.
As the data reference IS technically importing the pipes via XML; even if that isn't the command in use.

[WScottAllenPE]

Are you referring to the settings under "Pipe Network", "Storm Sewer Migration Defaults" ("Part Matching Defaults", etc)?

If so, after looking through the help files for that setion, it appears that these settings are reserved for the commands to transfer the Civil 3D data to and from the Storm and Sanitary Analysis (.stm files). Since my problem is related to C3D to C3D instead, do these settings apply?

If they do apply, I still have the problem of having to open the drawings to make the changes to the settings to bring in the data correctly, but by opening the drawing, the data automatically comes in incorrectly. I still create the problem in trying to fix the problem.

[mjfarrell]

I'm talking about

Toolspace
Settings Tab
Rt-Click on Drawing Name
Edit XML Settings operation....it's a long shot.
Also I have as yet attempted to reproduce your procedure. Although I do believe it is happening.

[WScottAllenPE]

I looked at that style. I think it is related only to importing and exporting to LandXML. I tried it anyway, and it did not seem to make a difference.

On a separate note, I created new drawings, data references, etc, and could not get the problem to duplicate to the same extent that I did in the original drawings. That is, the parts did seem to come in with the proper part size (manhole and pipe size). But, new styles still did not come in from the pipes drawing into the referenced drawing.

That suggests to me that my problem is currently related to the drawing, and not a general problem with C3D 2012. This drawing was originally started in C3D 2011. I'm now using 2012, and don't know if that has something to do with it. I also don't know if it is a problem related to using Part Builder at any point in the process.

Regardless, at this point, I am prepared just to rebuild the drawings impacted, since it appears that I may be able to find some work arounds.

Thanks anyway.

Scott

[WScottAllenPE]

Has anyone found a solution or more information about this? I've started a new project, and I'm having the same issues. To verify that it was still happening, I used a simple part family with four parts, each with a different dimension and different style.

As before, it looks good in the original drawing, but when I data reference it into a second drawing, the style reverts to the style of the first part in the part family.

Help, please!!

Scott

[bruce.klug]

Can you post or send me your template with your pipe network parts list?
bruce (dot) klug (at) clark.wa.gov

There is a known issue that can cause this depending on how your parts list was created.
I can check it. Also, have you modified the parts catalog or are you using the Autodesk default one?

Bruce

[WScottAllenPE]

Bruce,

I've seen previous posts from you regarding having the same structure dimensions (for example, two 24x36 inlets) included as different parts names with different styles. I am aware that ACAD gets confused with this because the part ID does not differentiate between the two as different. I'm going to guess that this is what you are referring to.

In my case, that is not what I did, specifically to avoid that problem. Here is what I did. I have created my own part family by opening the Simple Cylinder Family in Part Builder, and saving it out as my specific family name. Then I modified the diameters available to be a short list to test. 0.01, 6, 12, and 48. Then in my Parts List, I added the part family and the four part sizes. The 0.01 diameter is style "Unassigned". The remaining three are Pedestal, Meter, and Handhole.

As I said, the structures I created look good in drawing 1, with the correct part size and style. However, when I bring in the data reference into drawing 2, the part size will still be correct (that is, the parts properties will identify it as 48 diameter, or 12, or 6), but all styles will revert to Unassigned, which is for 0.01 and is the first part size in the family in the parts list.

See the attached file.

I can send you the drawing if you still want. Thanks.

Scott

[bruce.klug]

Scott,
It looks like from the PDF that the parts list is setup correctly to avoid the other problem. The thing that's weird is it acts the same. Now i'm thinking it's either the drawing that has the pipes DS in either has a different parts list or is pointing to a different catalog?
I noticed in an earlier post that you mentioned fixing 25 plan-prof drawings. Are you using a standard template? When we cut sheets every drawing has the exact same template so we always have the same parts list, styles,...

Not much else comes to mind.

Bruce

[WScottAllenPE]

Bruce,

I've thought the same things several times. But, I have run trials to avoid that potential problem, with no success. For example, the pdf that I attached was constructed from two drawings from scratch. The parts lists were imported (dragged through Prospector) directly from one drawing to the other before attaching the data reference. Therefore, in this case, I completely avoided using any specific template.

Just to be sure, I just double checked the catalogs being used, and they are the same as well.

If you can think of anything else ....

Scott