Golden Rules for Revit

[cadkiller]

Group;

Is there a list of "Golden Rules" for Revit?

If not can we as a group put one together for new users like myself?
It would be great to know these and have some sort of list of guidelines!

BTW I bought "Introducing and Implementing Autodesk Revit" by Lay Fox & James Balding.
It's a great book and seen mention of some from the AUGI group like Scott Davis, Greg Cashen and Chris Zoog!

I wish they would have published an advanced book for Revit. Also wish a book for Revit 7.0 was available.

PS: I recently purchased Revit and look forward to mastering this great program!

Thanks;
Edward Borg
Precision Drafting LLC

[aaronrumple]

Thou shalt always check in worksets before leaving for the day.

[MikeJarosz]

THou shalt forget A*CAD

[Scott Davis]

It's a great book and seen mention of some from the AUGI group like Scott Davis, Greg Cashen and Chris Zoog! Wow! You actually read the 'fine print", huh?? It was great to be able to help JB and Fox out in the publication of the book, proud to say a had a (small) role in it!

good idea to make a list of rules! This would make a great post for Tips and Tricks! Lets get this thread going, and see what we can assemble out of it!

(edit: as the others are saying....forget AutoCAD! Thus my sig line)

[bclarch]

To expand on Mike Jarosz's quote. The toughest one is to learn to use the program as it was designed and not try and figure out how to use it "just like I did it in Autocad".

[sbrown]

These are not in any specific order.


1. Allways draw walls using one of the core boundaries for the location line, never wall centerline or wall face(except rare occasions)

2. When creating floors, ceilings or roofs, always check the box for extend into core(some rare exceptions to this)

3. Create a shared parameters file for all the typical dimensional labels you use over and over in family creation.

4. Use revit as it was designed to be used not as you'd like it to work.

5. Don't use In-place families for anything other than a single instance object specific to that project.

6. Do all the tutorials before diving into a project.

7. Watch out for odd angles and non parallel walls.

8. Utilize symbol lines in families

9. Utilize worksets.

10 Learn the family editor.

[aaronrumple]

Eh.... in our office we draw exterior walls based on finished face and interior wall based on centerline. (Typically) The logic being that we set the outer limits at the SD phase and as wall types are definded they grow inward without increasing the building footprint. Likewise - at the design stage we use a generic 6" wall for layout and then adjust type later. Since many walls are based on column line locations, we want them centered on these critical grids.

This is for commecial projects....

[Joef]

Under number 10. Learn the Family Editor.

a. Use Type Catalogs when creating large families.

[bowlingbrad]

Rule #00

Be active in the AUGI Revit Forum!

[Scott Davis]

Eh.... in our office we draw exterior walls based on finished face and interior wall based on centerline. (Typically) The logic being that we set the outer limits at the SD phase and as wall types are definded they grow inward without increasing the building footprint. Likewise - at the design stage we use a generic 6" wall for layout and then adjust type later. Since many walls are based on column line locations, we want them centered on these critical grids.

This is for commecial projects....
We do the opposite, because room area is the critical number for schools, and not building footprint. In SD, set up the design based on program so the SF is correct. Later, change wall types so walls expand outward, leaving SF intact.

[sjsl]

Same as Aaron, finish face and centerline interiors.

[sbrown]

So then do you dimension to your finish for exterior walls? I've allways had to dim to the face of conrete(foundation wall) for property line offsets. I say face of core so that your structural dims. don't change when you change the finish materials, I almost never dim to finish, unless its masonry.

Eh.... in our office we draw exterior walls based on finished face and interior wall based on centerline. (Typically) The logic being that we set the outer limits at the SD phase and as wall types are definded they grow inward without increasing the building footprint. Likewise - at the design stage we use a generic 6" wall for layout and then adjust type later. Since many walls are based on column line locations, we want them centered on these critical grids.

This is for commecial projects....

[papurajx]

Rule no 12:

'Learn to live with workarounds, accept them as legitimate ways of doing things and be prepared to reinvent them once the newer build / version of 'Revit' is available for download'.

[Scott Davis]

Rule no 12:*

'Learn to live with workarounds, accept them as legitimate ways of doing things and be prepared to reinvent them once the newer build / version of 'Revit' is available for download'.
*If you encounter rule number 12, see sbrown, rule number 4. :p

[Kirky]

#13. make and 'shake' your own templates for different project types etc.

[Martin P]

The best (2) bits of advice I ever got, both from Chris Yearick......

#14 - sometimes you have to accept that your wall joins are not going to appear automatically on plan as you wish (T junctions etc) - get over it and draft over the top with filled regions to make it appear as you want - it makes your life a lot easier!!!

#15 - Gridlines, Gridlines are really helpful when used to locate walls stacked on top of one and other - use them a lot. Even with the stacked wall funtion in 7.0 you will still need to use gridlines.



#16 - for stepped foundations, use a floor not walls.

#17 - dont go mad with levels, if you only have say 3 or 4 things that "go to" or "go from" a certain level, its not worth adding a level and cluttering up your drawing - use heights and offsets for objects. Only add levels for situations where you have a lot of objects to or from. I generally use just floors, ceilings and ground levels. (and top of founds)

[jetisart]

#18. Clean-up your rubbish (and others too) in the Families.

When you create new families using existing family templates, never trust any existing elements and don't treat their positions as correct and final. In particular, horizontal and vertical (blue) "flip" controls, reference lines and planes (and their lengths extending into the "space"), dimensions, labels, etc.

Bear in mind, that they all contribute later to an invisible family overall "space envelope". Move them as close to your main object as possible. Also don't go wild with the lengths of your "invisible" lines (symbol lines for instance), dimensions and any other "constructional" aid you might use, for the same reason. You never know where and what they might obstruct, when you least expect it...

To add to the confusion they might create, you will have a hard time trying to find any mention of this behaviour anywhere in the documentation. I learned about this issue from some good soul in the Factory, when they tried to help me to remove some "ghosting" doors from my section.

Cheers,

Jerry :-)

[Nic M.]

Beware not to lock everything or constrain everything.
In my first project in Revit I constrained referenced and locked a lot because it was cool to move an item and see the whole building respond. As the project became more complex the program respond time went up and I spend a lot of time hunting down these locks to disable them.

[SCShell]

I like this thread.

My 2 additions are thus:

When doing a remodel project, draw the existing plan, fully dimensioned, and ALWAYS lock your dimensions as these will never change....they're existing! Then, save it out to a separate file for safe keeping. This standard practice will save you loads of time down the road in the event of accidently messing it up. (It allows you to import it, or cut/paste aligned, back into the project later if needed.)

If you use the PDF writer to print, and your view is a "shading with edges" view, avoid underlaying plans which are also "shading with edges" views. They do not print accurately, even though they look fine when previewing them. (I don't know if this has been fixed in 7.0 yet)

Best of Luck
Steve

[jose.sam]

These are not in any specific order.

1. Allways draw walls using one of the core boundaries for the location line, never wall centerline or wall face(except rare occasions)

2. When creating floors, ceilings or roofs, always check the box for extend into core(some rare exceptions to this)

3. Create a shared parameters file for all the typical dimensional labels you use over and over in family creation.

7. Watch out for odd angles and non parallel walls.

8. Utilize symbol lines in families

9. Utilize worksets.

this has been really useful to me, thank you.

can i ask you to expand though on some? whilst a rule is a valuable piece of knowledge, the reason as to why is often more educational (certainly for me). others explaination to your item one being a good example.

thank you again (everyone who shared these rules)

[Brent]

Always update your project template(s) when you change standard components.
I.e. Wall Types, Text, Tags, and Filled Regions.

But I think it's best to leave Doors, Windows, and most families out of the template for logistics reasons and a smaller file size.

[J. Grouchy]

Never explode dimensions!.... errrrr....
nevermind....that's some other program

[sfaust]

Never explode dimensions!.... errrrr....
nevermind....that's some other program
:lol: Sweet. Good one.

[Elrond]

## Make full use of reference planes in any and every situation. They are easy to align to, dimension, get the angle right etc etc for setting out. Lock them if possible, delete them if necessary.

It is much easier to have 1 locked reference plane to align everything to than to figure out whether to lock the floor or the wall or the roof... etc in place.

[Scott Davis]

Use Snap Over-rides!

During commands (Move, copy, lines, sketch, etc.) type two-letter key-ins to set the snap override temporarily for the current command. Out of the box:

SE - SNAP END
SM - SNAP MID
SN - NEAR
SW - WORK PLANE GRID
SQ - QUAD
SI - INTERSECTION
SC - CENTER
SP - PERPENDICULAR
ST - TANGETN
SX - POINT
SR - REMOTE OBJECTS - (To snap to extensions of elements on the screen, select Snap to Remote Objects)
SS - OVERRIDE OFF
TAB - CYCLE THROUGH SNAPS
SO - SNAP OFF

All these can be seen in Settings>Snaps, and the key-ins can be changed in the keyboardshortcuts.txt file, or in ShortcutHighway if you've downloaded it.

All Key-ins (custom or OOTB show in the pull-down menus in parentheses (SO) )

[sbrown]

this has been really useful to me, thank you.

can i ask you to expand though on some? whilst a rule is a valuable piece of knowledge, the reason as to why is often more educational (certainly for me). others explaination to your item one being a good example.

thank you again (everyone who shared these rules)


1. Allways draw walls using one of the core boundaries for the location line, never wall centerline or wall face(except rare occasions)

as you read in other posts, this seems to be my personal preference, but I will explain. When I layout a building, I layout the structure, finishes will alway change and their dimensions are rarely even numbers. So I model like a builder. With the exception of a masonry finish, I will not dimension to the finish only the core. So if you follow this rule, you will easily be able to swap out wall types with varying finishes without screwing up your dimensions. Any other location line will move the core bounary.

2. When creating floors, ceilings or roofs, always check the box for extend into core(some rare exceptions to this)

Again, I think structurally, how the building is built and except for rare cases, the structure is built first without finishes, so this is how I want my structure(walls, floors, roof, ceilings) to behave. The easiest example is a roof overhang, these are typically dimensioned from the face of stud to the end of the truss or rafter. So if you want a 2'-0" overhang when you do your detail, you need to check the box, extend into core, otherwise your overhang will be 2'-0" from the finish and if your finishes vary from wall to wall, you will have strange dimensions when you detail. not to mention your roof framing will be odd.

3. Create a shared parameters file for all the typical dimensional labels you use over and over in family creation.

Ok, lets say you build a lot of columns which I do.. They all have a Base Height/width, Shaft Height/width, Capital Height/width etc. Once you've had to type these same parameters numerous times and others in your office label the same dimension something else, but means the same you'll understand why this is important. Also for office standards in family creation it will help alot.

7. Watch out for odd angles and non parallel walls.

This rears its ugly head on almost all jobs I've worked on that started with an autocad background. Revit looks for relationships, so when you draw a wall at an angle it looks for a line parallel to align too, well more times than not there are 2 lines somewhere in the dwg that are very close to parallel, but arent quite. This causes you to not be able to dimension your walls or cut true perpendicular sections. If you are starting from scratch this is not as big an issue, just set up one ref plane that is at the angle you want and all your walls will snap to it when you draw them.

8. Utilize symbol lines in families

Improves regeneration time. If you just create the 3d geometry, revit has to calculate all the hidden line removal in all views of that object. If you turn off the 3d and draw symbol lines in plan and elevation, your file will zip right along. Furniture is the worst. We do alot of seating layout with 200+ person dining rooms and you watch revit "draw" all that furniture every time you zoom and its awful, as soon as you replace the furniture with families utilizing symbol lines, the regen is instant.

9. Utilize worksets.

Too long to type. Basically it gives you the flexibility of autocad in controling visiblilty of any group of items you want and allows you to only open what you need to work on, instead of opening the whole model, slowing down your workflow.

[4christo4]

Be precise. The extra time to be precise now will always save time later. (My personal pet peeve re: imprecise cad work is coming out here).

[Jim Balding]

Great thread ladies and gents... These should be compiled, Mr Davis commence a cuttin' and pastin'. Thanks for the compliment Mr. "Killer". I'll tell you what, if this list grows to the point of a top 20 (50, 100) "Golden Rules" I will try and get it in the next book as an appendix, if you all are OK with it.

Here is one for the list

Have a good template.

More to follow...

[J. Grouchy]

I think someone mentioned it before, but I want to stress the importance of being involved in either communicating to co-Reviteers or to AUGI any problems, wishes or compliments. I've never seen such an actively involved group of people who actually have input into each release. I don't think I've seen such a forum or Corel or Photoshop or even AutoCAD...and I surely have never been able to directly address the guy who might be able to actually change something within one of those programs. I think this is one of the biggest reasons for Revit's phenomenal growth over the past couple of years and I think Revit and AutoDesk should always remember this.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

Definitely the most golden of the golden rules grav8e. :beer:
Maybe that should be the lone item on the 'Platinum Rules' list ?

[frame]

'Tab' is your friend.

[cosmickingpin]

Develop your models in a thoughtful manner. Resist the temptation to generate a lot of "stuff" too early in the design process and have yourself a "3d salad" in which any minor change requires hours and hours of checking and updating with over developed drafting and elaborate inplace componets. In Revit, one can very quickly generate something that looks like a sexy building, but unless one has a graps as to the complexity that can result, one can end up with files that become difficult to manage as your design develops (especially with multiple users) and end up wasting time hunting what I like to call "Revit Gremlins."

[Wes Macaulay]

Look at the commands that you're using all the time -- how you're working -- and edit the keyboard shortcuts file to suit. I discovered that I was working in 3D views a lot and wanting to move things in that view with precision. To move things in the XY plane (no Z) I would pick View > Orient > Top and make the move; to move things in elevation I would pick View > Orient > North/West/East/South and make the move. I ended up making keyboard shortcuts for orienting the view and man, did that save me some clicks.

Menus are slow going!

I've added a document that we hand out to local users. Cheers!

(14 June '05 - The attached version has been updated to include a few more tips - WM)

[Arnel Aguel]

"There is no place like AUGI where you can talk directly to the father (Revit Founders)"

[gbrowne]

Thats a great .pdf there. Something like that should come with the CD.

[Wes Macaulay]

Mr Brown - love Tips 7 and 8. Those are very good points...

[Joef]

Thanks for the pdf Wes! I'll hand it out to all my employees today! There will be quiz on Friday. :-)

Joe

[eddy.lermytte]

Wes ... indeed ... thats a helpfull pdf. ...

[Scott Hopkins]

Wes - Thanks for the great pdf!

[Arnel Aguel]

Wes that pdf file is great thanks a million.

[irwin]

I like this thread.
When doing a remodel project, draw the existing plan, fully dimensioned, and ALWAYS lock your dimensions as these will never change....they're existing!
I recommend locking the objects (push pin) rather than locking the dimensions:

- If you want an object to stay where it is, use the push pin.
- If you want an object to move whenever some other object moves, lock a dimension or alignment.

[papurajx]

'Contraints' are 'Double edged' knives....

'Locking the model' with constraints helps to maintain relationship but too many of them will slow down your work.

'External families' are better than 'In-place' families. In-place families tend to slowdown your work if too many of them employed in your model. Use 'In-place' option for 'sytem families' (which you cannot create externally) rather than for 'other components' just for your convenience of work.

'Parametric Families with 'formula' will increase your file size than the one without formulae.

'Attaching the wall' to the underside of slab will trigger additional 'dialog boxes' everytime you edit your slab. Try to avoid the 'attaching option' until you finalise your design in full.

Restrict external walls to have constraints between associated levels' rather than creating them as full height walls from 'basement to roof' (some still advice this). It is okay to do so while in design stage or for preliminary drawings but it will pose great difficulties while doing 'Constuction documents' and for quantity take-off.

'Work-around' issues..

Not everyone can master the art of workarounds to perfection. Some of the inputs from the experienced users are good to follow rather than trying figure out on our own but don't follow them blindly without understanding the limitations of the software at the time of the use. Such 'workarounds' will be 'nodes of future problem' when newer builds are developed and efforts are made by the factory to regularise these workarounds.

'Workarounds' such as creating slabs as external families 'using generic medel' template is wise choice if your slab has too many penetrations and varying thickness, set-downs, etc.. but bear in mind that the slab will not behave as a host for other host based elements. Use sub-categories in 'Generic Model' while creating the slabs or anyother components like 'Pergola', roof assembly etc.. for better control of visibility in the model.

Don't expect too much of perfection while creating staircase and balusters. It is a waste of time trying to tweak the model to achieve perfection (sometimes it may not yield desirable' results). Better to do the details in '2D' to save time. Make better use of the '2D' drafting tools available in Revit to complete the documentation rather than trying to model everything.

Revit Implementation

Use Revit for projects on 'case by case basis'. It is not not necessary to replace AuotCAD or Microsation entirely with Revit for drawing production. Revit can be used for
1. simple design visualisation or
2. conceptual design and study or
3. direct construction documentation
depending on the 'merit of the work' and collective decision of the entire team involved in the project.
Have a clear understanding of requirement and the task in hand before starting to model the design. Don't model everything just to prove to the rest of the office that you know how to do it Revit. Too much modeling will have adverse effects and not suitable for team work especially when we pool in '2D' Autocad users in the team. Revit's inter-operatability with AutoCAD is very useful for construction documentation and to exchange drawings with other consultants and site office still continue to use AutoCAD as their primary tool for documentation.

My 2 cents worth......from my Revit Implementation knowledge and experience !!!!

[pwmsmith]

I would like to see opinions concerning the merits of constraining walls between levels. I believe the general thinking in Vegas was to model full height. I prefer this over level to level because I know the building is correct.
Different opinions and why?

[irwin]

'Parametric Families with 'formula' will increase your file size than the one without formulae.
Hm. Hadn't heard that before. From theoretical considerations I don't see why it would be true -- adding formulae should not have a noticeable effect on file size -- and it doesn't happen in the one example I just tried. Perhaps when you observed this there was something else going on.

[Henry D]

I also prefer making the exterior wall full height. This was actually the first question I ever had answered on the Zoog Forum two years ago by L. Raiz and his advice has served me very well: to think of the exterior wall as I would build it on a cardboard model. I have never encountered any difficulties caused by doing this. I would think that having a separate exterior wall for each level would open one up to more errors and a loss of performance since what could have been one object is now multiplied by however many times as there are levels.

[gravelin]

En ce qui me concerne , j'évite de placer des relations entre deux objets qui ont des relations à d'autres objets qui ont des relations à d'autres objets qui...

(on dirait l'histoire de l'homme qui a vu l'homme qui a vu l'homme ... qui a vu l'ours. ;-))

L'usage des quadrillages est primordial car il permet de concentrer les relations sur un même objet qui permet ensuite de piloter tout le groupe.

I avoid placing relations between two objects which have relations with other objects which have relations with other objects which...

(Appears like the history of the man who saw the man who saw the man... who saw the bear.;-) )

The use of the grid is importante because it makes it possible to concentrate the relations on same a object which then makes it possible to control all the group.

[papurajx]

Hm. Hadn't heard that before. From theoretical considerations I don't see why it would be true -- adding formulae should not have a noticeable effect on file size -- and it doesn't happen in the one example I just tried. Perhaps when you observed this there was something else going on.

What I meant was 'Parametric Array in families using formula' to control the arrayed element.

[Merlin]

Be precise. The extra time to be precise now will always save time later. (My personal pet peeve re: imprecise cad work is coming out here).

Oh...hear, hear!....THAT is also a reason I don't like "that other" 3D modelling programme!

[papurajx]

I would think that having a separate exterior wall for each level would open one up to more errors and a loss of performance since what could have been one object is now multiplied by however many times as there are levels.

The type of projects I handle are 'Multi-storey apartments' with few hundred units. The design doesn't support full height exterior wall. Take a look at the image attached.

[Henry D]

Xavier,

Yes, I can see that's a different "story".

(mod edit: <rimshot.wav> Thank you!)

[anthony.67953]

Start your family with Reference planes and parameter dimensions working first than attach model elements to the Ref planes.

[bclarch]

This thread is getting rather long. Perhaps it should be broken down into subsections when it is converted to a "Tips & Tricks" post. Some things will be difficult to categorize (i.e. forget Autocad) but I think that creating subgroups will make things more comprehensible.

Some suggested subdivisions.
Golden Rules: Overall Thought Processes for using Revit. (Forget Autocad, draw it as you build it, etc.)
Golden Rules: Project Layout. (use of ref planes, grid lines, locking things that are unlikely to move, use full height exterior walls, floors and roofs cut to core, etc.)
Golden Rules: Family Creation ( ref planes, flexing, etc)
Golden Rules: Worksets (suggest groupings per project type, regular saves to central)
Golden Rules: Phasing & Design Options (management phase, using phasing for foundation plans, etc.)
Golden Rules: Documentation / Sheet Layouts (use template files, scope boxes to control visibility / printing, working sections vs. actual sections, etc.)

Useful or more trouble than it's worth?

[mmodernc]

Hey Wes
have you updated your "Best Practices for Revit" PDF?

[tyler.kawahara]

These are not in any specific order.



10 Learn the family editor.


I think this should be closer to the top. I am lost when it comes to creating complex families and it's really annoying...LOL

[chitnismahesh]

Wes!! the pdf was great, what can we do to further improve on the list is really break up the list and start exploring deeper.

i shall see if i can cover all the points and post some thing at the earliest

lets keep up the good work

Mahesh Chitnis
Architect

[JEFFRP]

I'm new to Revit but, Iwould like to add 4a.

Never draw something in plan that you have modeled. Here is what I ran into. I was working on a upper floor lower roof framing plan, the engineer wanted to see a beam that was above my cut plane, when I adjusted my view range so that I could see the beam my shear walls weren't being cut and didn't show right but, on the upper roof framing plan the beam showed up just fine. The Engineer had me hide the beam in the upper roof framing plan and draw it in on the lower plan.

[Andre Carvalho]

I'm new to Revit but, Iwould like to add 4a.

Never draw something in plan that you have modeled. Here is what I ran into. I was working on a upper floor lower roof framing plan, the engineer wanted to see a beam that was above my cut plane, when I adjusted my view range so that I could see the beam my shear walls weren't being cut and didn't show right but, on the upper roof framing plan the beam showed up just fine. The Engineer had me hide the beam in the upper roof framing plan and draw it in on the lower plan.

You could have used the linework tool for that. Change your view range to see the beam, use the linework tool to show it, let's say dashed or overhead, and then switch you view range back to what it was before. You will still see you beam's linework and are not actually drawing anything new to your plan...

Andre Carvalho