A little "doctoring" in piranesi.

[Paul Monsef]

Since i've never posted anything in here, I figured I had better.

See comments w/ attachments.

[bclarch]

I really like the sketch paper image. Does anybody out there know if the full blown version of Accurender has these kind of filters? If they do, I would love to see them included in future releases of Revit. Clients sometimes feel that a more polished rendering means that all of the finish decisions are etched in stone and you have to spend half of the meeting convincing them that refinements to the selections can still be made. I think that a more sketchlike rendering in the early stages of design would allow them to focus more on the design and less on the finishes.

[beegee]

Piranesi is a great rendering program, but you can probably get very close to this with Photoshops filters and effects also.
I work with some graphic artists who knock these sort of things together over a quick cup of coffee. Takes me about two weeks though. :oops:

[hand471037]

The full-blown Accurender does NOT have the ability to do 'sketch' style renderings. However, the same folks that made Accurender have made another rendering software, called 'Penguin', that does exactly that. It looks way cool, but it only interfaces with Rhino & AutoCAD as far as I know. You probably could export your Revit model via AutoCAD to it, like I do with Radiance...

http://www.penguin3d.com/

Otherwise it's photoshop's filters, which look pretty good, but just a touch too 'regular'. Maybe one of us should make and post some actions that auto-skecthulize a Revit PDF export... :)

[gregcashen]

I'll do it!


...

Oh, yeah, I don't know anything about pshop :(

I know, Jeffrey will do it!

[PeterJ]

Penguin looks interesting. It's certainly inexpensive and looks like it will produce the right look and feel that many people have been looking for.

I didn't download it, does one require the host software, i.e. Rhino or AutoCAD or does it stand alone and simply read in their files?

[Djordje]

Clients sometimes feel that a more polished rendering means that all of the finish decisions are etched in stone and you have to spend half of the meeting convincing them that refinements to the selections can still be made. I think that a more sketchlike rendering in the early stages of design would allow them to focus more on the design and less on the finishes.

You are missing the point, guys.

Piranesi is not a renderer, or an image editing software. It is 3D painting, also a POST rendering app.

Unlike Photoshop, it knows about the depth of the image and the materials applied - so you can add entourage that follows the perspective, re-paint materials, reflections, even create new planes (water, hedges ...). You can use it in an early stage to populate and present a model in an early stage, OR in the final presentation to remove the computerish feel of mostly any rendering, that clients mostly don't like.

You do NOT have to apply one "filter" to the whole image. It can be done partially.

Check it out, it is IMHO a necessary tool!

http://www.informatix.co.uk/piranesi/index.shtml

[hand471037]

'You are missing the point, guys.'

No we're not. We all know what the software does. We just can't afford it, so we're being cheap and trying to see if we can get close by just using photoshop. :)

Last time I checked it was in the $1500 range, which unless you're doing constant viz work for people is a little steep IMHO when you can get somewhat simular looks from Sketchup! and Photoshop, which are both sub-thousand dollar programs that can be used for a lot more than just viz.

But it is a *great* tool for what it does.

[Paul Monsef]

I really have no point... i never do... "I'm just saying"

I have used both PhotoCHOP and Piranesi... (I believe it it still $695 for piranesi and somewhere around $595 for photochop)...

They are two totally different programs and should not even be compared... Photoshop is a 2d image editing tool,,, piranesi is a 3d painting tool. The "napkin" sketch look i posted previously was created in 15min or so, from an unrendered DXF file. Unless you have years of drinking and drink a lot of training, no no no... years of training and a lot of coffee you can NOT do that in photoshop.. :wink:

BTW... You can also add materials, cutouts such as trees and people which automatically scale depending on A. what scale your project is set to and B. where you place them in the picture... The epx file format not only comtains the pixel information, but the material and depth as well.

Penguin does look cool.. I think i'll download it!

[Djordje]

'You are missing the point, guys.'

No we're not. We all know what the software does. We just can't afford it, so we're being cheap and trying to see if we can get close by just using photoshop. :)

Where do they give out Photoshop for free? ;)


Last time I checked it was in the $1500 range, which unless you're doing constant viz work for people is a little steep IMHO when you can get somewhat simular looks from Sketchup! and Photoshop, which are both sub-thousand dollar programs that can be used for a lot more than just viz.

Hmmmmm? Never heard of that price, AFAIK it was never more than $750. Maybe someone was trying to rip you off? ;)

No need to export from viz, max, Art•Lantis, whatever either - takes plain DWG, DXF or 3DS too. Open it in Vedute, set the viewpoint, save as EPX, paint on!

What I like most about it is that you HAVE to know how to do it by hand, I mean sketching and painting :wink: , if you want any good result. Makes a professional difference.

In reference to another thread - SketchUp to Piranesi as a first impression? Talk about napkin sketches!

[hand471037]

Oh, my bad; I for some reason thought that it was over $1000 and not under. :oops:

And as for Photoshop being free, it's not, but most of us already have it. And if it came down to buy it or Parnisi, I think I would still have to go with Photoshop, for it's got more value to me. But that's just me.

I'm not saying it's not a great tool, so please, everyone calm down. I was simply musing that someone should make some photoshop actions that would take a Revit rendering/shaded view and make it look 'sketchy'. Rendering in another software outside of your CAD system only really makes sense to me if you *really* need to for some reason. By rendering within Revit, I'm able to produce better renderings, even tho Accurender is 'substandard' simply because I've got more time to tweak the image. So if I could make a shaded 3D view in Revit, run a photoshop action on it, and then doodle a little over the top of it, that would take me way less time and get 80% of the same effect as exporting it to Parnisi, even if it don't look as great in the end- if it takes half the time, and the client likes it, then it works for me. :)

But that's just me, I'm certain it works well for you guys... to each their own.

WTF? When did Zoog's site become soapbox central? j/k :lol:

[Paul Monsef]

I guess my point is this.... Bad renderings in Accurender look bad and take a lot of time... setting up materials, rendering etc..

A bad rendering in Piranesi take no time and actually looks pretty cool...

Just supplying another alternative if you don't want that finished look. I find in the SD stage, it's a lot faster....

[Paul Monsef]

Last one promise...

[Steve_Stafford]

I like "soft pencil", very nice.

[PeterJ]

Ditto

[beegee]

I think theres a great opportunity for an enterprising software company to produce a killer app for rendering in the building design field. ( Autodesk, are you listening ? )

At the moment, I don't think there really is one that does everything we want it to do, at a reasonable price, and with an intuitive UI and low learning curve.

Something combining all the good points of SketchUp/Piranesi/Radiance/Vray/Visarc / Photoshop should do nicely for starters :) ( oh, and seamlessly tacked on to Revit 6.1 of course ! )

Is that being too idealistic ?

I'll post it to the wishlist ?

[bucksy]

is there any way to export a Revit file into piranesi completely with the materials and colors assigned in Revit.
Looks like the dxf file has only the linework information.

thanks for any reply.

[SkiSouth]

T

Otherwise it's photoshop's filters, which look pretty good, but just a touch too 'regular'. Maybe one of us should make and post some actions that auto-skecthulize a Revit PDF export... :)

Jeffery - Tried Piranesi - its cool, but TIME consuming. The problem is after you have made your Revit model - you export, and then you REAPPLY the materials. Issues are - small round details - like slate roof caps etc. In my recent post on the gallery I posted a process where I looked at the advantages of PIranesi - trying to use it.. Still learning that program so the renderings are not the best, but not bad. The problem became TIME. I did not use the Vedute translator - I'll try that next.

But the Photoshop was too easy. There is a helper under the Actions window called Venette, which will help you generate a fade, then apply a find edge filter on a second copy of the image, use percentage opacity and your done - about 30 minutes max, and you have a good 90 percent feel of the Piranesi. NOT the same feel but close.

Just depends on what you need. Most offices have Photoshop available and its multi use, Piranesi is single use and about the same price as Photoshop. I am relooking at my 3dsMax 6 too. If I can only work out the materials transfer, I think I will go back to using it for the final render, or at least think strongly about it...

Anyway - I think you are correct. Piranesi is a strong program, but time wise- it does cost the office more time...

[Roger Evans]

Some UK Prices as of Jan 2005

Piranesi £ 375.00 + Vat
SketchUp £ 320.00 + Vat
Photoshop £ 490.00 + Vat

and for those on a tight budget
Coloured Pencils about £1.29 for 10 from Lidl

I've seen some very nice stuff on the Piranesi site ~ very tempting