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jgh
2005-09-27, 04:09 PM
I need help with the FILLET command in 3D. I've designed up some sheet metal parts but can't seem to add the bend radius. I get the statement: "Can not fillet an entity with itself."

Any suggestions?

Opie
2005-09-27, 04:12 PM
Are you trying to fillet each end of an open polyline? You would need to close the polyline first before filleting the ends.

jgh
2005-09-27, 04:46 PM
The polylines are closed.

Opie
2005-09-27, 04:53 PM
I'm not sure then. If the polylines are 3d, I don't think the fillet would work on them anyway. I'm probably wrong on that though.

Have you looked into making your UCS match the entities? This may work.

Wanderer
2005-09-27, 04:55 PM
Are you trying to fillet each end of an open polyline? You would need to close the polyline first before filleting the ends.I would have assumed the opposite? ( ;) granted, that's not saying much, I assume lots of things)

jgh
2005-09-27, 05:14 PM
What I've done is make a polyline of the material and using the thickness property; I've made the part the thickness of the material. What I need to do is fillet the thickness. The Polylines will fillet but that isn't what I'm looking for.

Let me know if this can be done

Thanks
Jim

Opie
2005-09-27, 05:24 PM
You can adjust each segment of the polyline in the properties pallette.

Under the "Geometry" portion of the pallette, you should see a vertex line. This line should say "1" and have 2 horizontal arrow <> buttons. (See atachment)

You can toggle the arrow buttons to cycle through each vertex.

Below that you can change the starting segment width and ending segment width. (see attachment)

HTH

jgh
2005-09-27, 05:28 PM
Thanks I will give it a try!

jaberwok
2005-09-27, 05:51 PM
Have you tried Extruding the plines into solids instead of giving them thickness?
You can't radius the top or bottom corners of something with Thickness (in acad terminology).
If I've misunderstood, please post an example or a fuller description of your process.

Mike.Perry
2005-09-27, 09:25 PM
I need help with the FILLET command in 3D. I've designed up some sheet metal parts but can't seem to add the bend radius. I get the statement: "Can not fillet an entity with itself."Hi "jgh" (Sorry, I don't know your real name)

Please note I have *moved* this thread from the AutoCAD 2006 General (http://forums.augi.com/forumdisplay.php?f=197) forum to this one as I feel this particular Forum is a more appropriate place for such a topic.

Thanks, Mike

Forum Moderator

jgh
2005-09-28, 12:31 PM
I have attached a drawing.

Thanks for all the help

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA
Newfound Tech.
Work: 8:30am to 1:30pm

jaberwok
2005-09-28, 01:07 PM
Okay Jim.
Your model is made up of polylines which have been given thickness. Each polyline is "closed" - that is why Fillet cannot join them.
I have made 2 closed, filletted polylines. If you Extrude them by the depth of the cabinet (I've added a line in space of the correct length) then Subtract the inner from the outer you will have a solid that represents the 4 sides of the cabinet with radiused corners.
Your rear panel is another collection of polylines with thickness. I have converted some of them into Regions. The inner regions (holes) can be subtracted from the outer region (the panel). This way you will end up with solid objects which will (probably) be more useful to you.
I have put the new stuff on layer "new" and frozen all other layers.

HTH

jgh
2005-09-28, 01:17 PM
Thanks johnbogie. I'll look it over and see if I can wrap my mind around it.

Jim Healy

jgh
2005-09-28, 01:26 PM
Well Johnbogie what I'm trying to do is fillet in the z axis for .05 inches.
You have in filleted in the x-y axis.

Any ideas?

Thanks Jim Healy

jaberwok
2005-09-28, 02:08 PM
Well Johnbogie what I'm trying to do is fillet in the z axis for .05 inches.
You have in filleted in the x-y axis.

Any ideas?

Thanks Jim Healy

Yes.
But it depends - do you intend to continue with polylines or change to solids?
Are the four short edge corners to remain open (as they were) or be closed?
Consequently - will you want spherical corners?

If you want to stick with polylines, construct the corner joint (2 x 90%%d arc + 2 x straight line) and give them thickness equal to the case width (depth).
If solids, use Extrude then Union then Fillet.

jgh
2005-09-28, 02:48 PM
As I understand it SOLID will plot filled and I need wireframe which doesn't plot filled.

Thanks

Jim Healy

P.S.: My background I've been using AutoCAD since 1985 version 2.01 ( you know steam powered IBM XT PC), and continued on till AutoCAD 13 at this point the company went to SolidWorks which I used until this new job that has me using AutoCAD 2006 to do 3D modeling drawings. Yes I have a copy of AutoCAD 2006 for dummies and the 19 page 3D print out from Mark Middlebrooks' Website.

jaberwok
2005-09-28, 03:12 PM
As I understand it SOLID will plot filled and I need wireframe which doesn't plot filled.

Solids can be plotted in full wireframe, hidden, shaded or rendered - it's solely a plotting function so that need not stop you from using solids.

I'm still not sure exactly what you want to achieve but I wish you good luck with it.

jgh
2005-09-28, 03:46 PM
Thanks

I'm not sure how to explain it better. I'll bush up on solids and try a new approach to the problem.

Jim Healy

jaberwok
2005-09-28, 08:20 PM
Is this the sort of shape you want?

(I couldn't do it before - only using LT at work.)

jgh
2005-09-29, 12:39 PM
Yes this is what I was going for!

How did you do that?

Jim

jaberwok
2005-09-29, 02:16 PM
Yes this is what I was going for!

How did you do that?

Jim

Simply put -
Create the "U" shape as a closed pline and extrude it the full length of the panel. Copy the new solid and rotate it 90%%d about the z-axis.
The first solid forms the flat face and the two long edges. The second gets Sliced on the lines through the fillet centres to form the two short edges. A bit of slicing of the first solid - again on the fillet centres. Move the two short edge pieces into position and Union the (three) parts. Convert the cutouts into Regions, Extrude and Subtract.

HTH

jgh
2005-09-29, 02:25 PM
I assume that you are using "Solid" Modeling instead of "Surface" Modeling?

jaberwok
2005-09-29, 02:31 PM
I assume that you are using "Solid" Modeling instead of "Surface" Modeling?


Yes. It's quicker and easier. It could be done with meshes though (the holes would be the tricky part).
I now only use meshes for shapes that cannot be made with the basic solids toolset that adesk supplies.

jgh
2005-09-29, 03:52 PM
Thanks for the solution!

It's not exactly the way to design sheetmetal but it gets the model done.

I'll have to spend some time wrapping my mind around this one.

I've started using "Solid" Models today. I'm just hoping that it makes the powers to be happy.


Thanks for your time

Jim

jaberwok
2005-09-29, 07:17 PM
Have fun with solids! I do.

:-D

jgh
2005-10-03, 01:57 PM
Well I'm having fun with "SOLIDS". But I haven't had much luck with the "MOVE FACE" Command.

On the attached drawing I'm trying to move the BLUE face to the MAGENTA face and I need it to be dead on. The problem is I can't use grips of any kind.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jgh
2005-10-03, 02:37 PM
Heck

It seems that I answered my own question. I just had to use FACE MOVE in the TOP view instead of the ISO view. In this way I could pick a NEA grip on the BLUE face and move it to as PERP grip on the MAGENTA face.

Its interesting talking to myself by way of E-Mail. AutoCAD can drive you to talk to yourself, but by using a keyboard? This is new to me.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-03, 02:41 PM
Its interesting talking to myself by way of E-Mail. AutoCAD can drive you to talk to yourself, but by using a keyboard? This is new to me.

Once you become sufficiently insane you should look in at the Coffee Without Cad forum.
Sounds like you're well on the way. ;-)

Wanderer
2005-10-03, 02:42 PM
Heck

It seems that I answered my own question. I just had to use FACE MOVE in the TOP view instead of the ISO view. In this way I could pick a NEA grip on the BLUE face and move it to as PERP grip on the MAGENTA face.

Its interesting talking to myself by way of E-Mail. AutoCAD can drive you to talk to yourself, but by using a keyboard? This is new to me.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MAexcellent! thanks for posting your solution.

um, yes. autocad can drive you to do insane things... like continuing to trouble-shoot an item, even if you've found a workaround already. ;) what's that quote: the definition of insanity if repeating the same tasks and expecting different results? lol...

jgh
2005-10-04, 12:37 PM
The problem is that AutoCAD, (really any CAD program), can give you different results for the same task. It makes for an interesting day.

jgh
2005-10-04, 01:40 PM
Well it looks like I now have a problem with the CHAMFER Command in maker a countersink hole. I've reviewed Mastering AutoCAD 2006, (which shows a countersink example), and I keep ending up with an internal countersink.

This is happening with the holes on the lefthand side of the chassis.

Help and as always thanks!

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-04, 07:54 PM
Silly question I hope but is there enough surface between the hole and the edge of the material to accomodate the entire chamfer? If the chamfer will run out beyond the edge the best answer is to make the main body larger and Slice or Subtract material from the edge afterwards (moving faces won't work).

jaberwok
2005-10-04, 07:58 PM
Ah. Now I've looked at the file.
You need to Subtract the hole object from the main body first.

HTH

jgh
2005-10-06, 12:57 PM
Yes that did the trick.

Thanks

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jgh
2005-10-06, 05:22 PM
Me again with a taper face question.

The attached drawing has a RED FACE on it. I need to Taper or Chamfer this face .094 by 45 degrees. I can't seem to do it.

Thanks

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-06, 07:24 PM
Me again with a taper face question.

The attached drawing has a RED FACE on it. I need to Taper or Chamfer this face .094 by 45 degrees. I can't seem to do it.

Thanks

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

I hope you meant the edge where I have coloured the new face blue but I'm prepared to be wrong.

I've chamfered the edge 0.04 x 45%%d and the problem is, as I mentioned before, the material is only 0.05 thick so a 0.095 x 45 %%d chamfer won't work.

jgh
2005-10-07, 12:09 PM
That's not really want I was trying to do. I was trying to taper the FACE. I would like to keep the top, (that you chamfered), were it is and have the FACE slope inward to the fan center.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jgh
2005-10-07, 12:25 PM
Well it looks like I answered my own question again. The trick wasn't to use TAPER FACE, but to CHAMFER the BLUE FACE, (see attachment), and not the RED FACE, (also see attachment).

As Always thanks for all the help.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-07, 12:25 PM
That's not really want I was trying to do. I was trying to taper the FACE. I would like to keep the top, (that you chamfered), were it is and have the FACE slope inward to the fan center.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

at 45%%d ?
Inner and outer faces (constant material thickness)?

Err. No. Obviously not.

jgh
2005-10-07, 03:37 PM
You sure? You CHAMFER both faces at 45 degrees and the material thickness should be constant. Refence attachment.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-07, 07:52 PM
You sure? You CHAMFER both faces at 45 degrees and the material thickness should be constant. Refence attachment.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

Which is not what you were doing the previous time. :-(

It's just me. I'm finding your descriptions of what you want to do ambiguous and, naturally, I always pick the wrong interpretation.

Anyway, you seem to be solving your own problems just fine. :-)

jgh
2005-10-10, 01:01 PM
It best this design is ambiguous. But I try to find the words.

There will be more questions and much more talking to myself to find the answers,

Thanks

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

Wanderer
2005-10-10, 02:04 PM
It best this design is ambiguous. But I try to find the words.

There will be more questions and much more talking to myself to find the answers,

Thanks

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MALOL... isn't that the way? you're completely lost, you post a question, then you figure it out.

resisting the urge to quote gandalf in lord of the rings ~twitch~

jaberwok
2005-10-10, 02:06 PM
resisting the urge to quote gandalf in lord of the rings ~twitch~

Something about the elderly talking to themselves, wasn't it? 8)

Wanderer
2005-10-10, 02:37 PM
Something about the elderly talking to themselves, wasn't it? 8)a habit of the old... :mrgreen: something about addressing the most intelligent person in the room...

jaberwok
2005-10-10, 02:50 PM
a habit of the old... :mrgreen: something about addressing the most intelligent person in the room...

Hmm. I really ought to remember - it used to be my sig line. Lol.

jgh
2005-10-11, 04:08 PM
I have a question about createing names iso views. I need to create a iso view in "Drawing 25" like the one in "Drawing 29". In short the rear cover, (colored green), must be in the same direction.

Any ideas?

Thanks for all the help

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-11, 06:24 PM
I have a question about createing names iso views. I need to create a iso view in "Drawing 25" like the one in "Drawing 29". In short the rear cover, (colored green), must be in the same direction.

You've made difficult for yourself by rotating the model in the second drawing. Can you put it back to an orthagonal "lie" in the UCS?
Bear in mind, it's not necessary to rotate the model - just pick a different view of it.

jaberwok
2005-10-11, 07:30 PM
Jim.
Your (red) base unit is all Regions. Is this deliberate or have you Exploded it? (Or both?)

jgh
2005-10-12, 12:28 PM
Drawing 29 is from the CAD Design that had this job before me and two temps that tried to "FIX" his work. I don't know much about it.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jgh
2005-10-12, 01:11 PM
Okay now I see what you mean. The RED base in Drawing #25 is no longer a 3D Solid. I have no idea how that happened. It looks like I will have to start again and pay attention. I might be working faster not smarter.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA

jaberwok
2005-10-12, 01:14 PM
Many of the regions can simply be extruded to material thickness. That'll just leave the fillets to reform. And the holes to remove.

jgh
2005-10-12, 03:14 PM
Thanks John. I'll give it a try, but I've been pulled to a PADS PCB project for the next two days. I may not be back to AutoCAD till Monday.

Jim Healy
Boxborough, MA