Wacom Tablet Rocks!

[Scott Hopkins]

After reading Jeffrey’s glowing endorsements, I ran out and bought a Wacom Graphire 3 tablet this weekend. I went for the stylish all-white model. It only took a few minutes to get it up and running on my machine. I have to admit my fist impression well less than favorable. I hated the darn thing! With so many years of mousing under my belt, the Wacom pen pointer felt awkward and unnatural. It seemed jerky and impossible to control. But after about 20 minutes of playing around with it and refining the settings, the Wacom pen began to grow on me. Within an hour I was hooked and saw the light. I can’t believe I didn’t get one of these things sooner. It just feels so good! I think Jeffrey is right, it will probably make me about 20% faster on Revit. The pen has two settings, “pointer style” and “mouse style”. While the “pointer style” feels more like real paper, I found the “mouse style” requires a lot less arm and shoulder movement. By the way, the companion mouse that comes with that the tablet is excellent and will most likely be what I use for word documents and the like.

The only down side as far as I can see is that it is a bit of a hassle to put down and pick up the pen in between typing text. The Graphire 3 comes with a little pen stand, I guess I’ll just have to get in the habit of using it. Also problematic is the lack of a scroll wheel. I double splurged and replaced my 6 year old keyboard with a new Logitech keyboard with built in scroll wheel. Now I’m on fire! :D

[gregcashen]

Scott, this is the exact setup that I have, though I NEVER use a mouse anymore. I own 3 wacoms now and find it a real hassle to go back to the mouse.

I think Jeffrey has posted on this before, but what I generaly do is, if I am going to be typing a lot, I will put the pen down, otherwise I have gotten used to typing short sentences with it in my fingers....sort of spread between my right ring finger and thumb, with my pointer and middle fingers resting over it...sort of feels like chopsticks at first, but not too bad after a while.

It will definitely make you more productive over time. It will also get you used to using some of the zooming and panning shortcuts, such as holding the shift and the front/bottom button on the pen to pan and the shift+ctrl and the button to zoom (I think I go that right...it's sort of second nature, so I forget about) I always use the scroll wheel on the keyboard. Also use the shift and ctrl and shift+ctrl modifiers to constrain movement when moving and copying and to determine whether I want to move or copy objects when using the move commands.

[Chad Smith]

This has really got me interested in a tablet now.
I've have never seen one in real life, but my most curious question is, how do you know where your cursor is in relation to the pad? I'm guessing as you hover the pen slightly over the tablet (not touching) that it senses the pen moving.:?:

[Wes Macaulay]

Chad, you're totally correct. Pointer speed is irrelevant on a tablet because the tablet detects the location of the stylus.

[PeterJ]

I have gotten used to typing short sentences with it in my fingers....sort of spread between my right ring finger and thumb, with my pointer and middle fingers resting over it...sort of feels like chopsticks at first, but not too bad after a while.

You're so clean living, Greg. I think of this as being like working with a lit cigarette between my fingers.

[Les Therrien]

excuse my ignorance. I am usually more ubeat on tech info. I have seen these before mostly being used by graphic designer.
I went to their website but it doesn't really give me a feel for the product.
What advantages would I gain by using one of these tablets (aside from no sore wrists - dirty minded people please don't go there!)

please tell me more!!! :D

[Steve_Stafford]

Les, check this THREAD (http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=670&highlight=tablet) and THIS (http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1110&highlight=tablet). These devices have generated interesting discussions...I even bought one because of it.

[Les Therrien]

Steve, do you like using it?

[Steve_Stafford]

Use it exclusively at home, brought it to work and back for a month or so and then got lazy. I also wasn't doing a lot of drafting at that point either.

If you don't use a pen or pencil much, you may find your arm is tired after a days use. After a week or so of heavy drafting my upper arm and shoulder started to hurt. So I stopped using it for a few days...pain subsided and I started to examine how I was using it and discovered I had lousy form. With better form the pain hasn't returned and I really like it. The mouse feels clumsy now. It is amazing how much quicker you can execute a series of commands with the pen instead.

I have the Graphire II and recall some discussion here about driver issues for the Graphire III but I can't substantiate anything. I do believe the smaller tablet is what you want for cadd vs the large for graphics (photoshop).

Read the other threads and you should hear what you need to hear I think.

[gregcashen]

Definitely go with the smallest pad you can get...4x5 for wacom. I actually have mine setup so that I only use the bottom-left 1/4 of the pad for the whole screen, or in the case of my dual monitor setup at work, I use the bottom half, with the left 1/4 being for the left monitor and the right for...you get it.

The issue with the Graphire 3 v. the Graphire 2 is that the 3 gave up support for program specific settings. I buy only Wacom Graphire2's from ebay...about $60-65 or so, which is cheaper than the $100 graphire3.

[Les Therrien]

I everyone using the Graphire 3? Is anyone using the Intuos2 or the Cintiq? Aside from price, which is better and why? I've never used one, so reading details from the website doesn't really do it for me.

[gregcashen]

The graphire is fine for Revit and most cad work. The others are bigger and are generally for more artsy programs, where fine, fiddly bits of work need to get done and the larger palette helps. For the type of stuff we are doing, less hand movements means less fatigue and the smaller tablet is good for that. I would highly recommend against the the other tablets.

By the way, for those of you wondering (probably none...) Wacom is pronounced WOCK-em. :wink:

[Scott Hopkins]

I looked at the Intuos - twice the price for the same size pad. The Intuos has twice as many levels of pressure sensitivity which won't do anything for me in Revit. It also has customizable tablet commands along the top of the tablet. I can't imagine why I want to go back to 1980's style digitizer input? The one thing I was coveting about the Intuos was that it comes with a soft grip on the pen. Ahhhhhhh - coushie pen grip.....

As far as the Griphire 2 vs. the Graphire 3 - the $40 - $50 you can save is probably worth it. The one thing I like about the Graphire 3, and that I am not sure if the Graphire 2 has it, is the "mouse mode" on the pointer. With the pen is on "mouse mode" having the smallest size tablet is not essential because you can pick the pin up and reposition it just like a mouse. I may exchange my 4x5 for the next size up that way I can more effectively use painting and sketching programs.

[Les Therrien]

thanks guys!

first chance I get, I am going to run out and get one!

since I've gone to dual monitors, my forearm has been getting numbness. I blame it on the fact that I am stretching over to the other monitor. The tablet would be a great aid to this problem.

[Scott Hopkins]

Actually, now that I think about it, since 95% of my work is on Revit, I am going to stick with the smaller 4x5 pad. Now if I could just find the perfect keyboard.....

[Les Therrien]

Is that for real!!!???
That would totally F--k me up.

It must be for 1 armed bandits :wink:

[cphubb]

I am using the Intous 2 tablet since I (and my firm) already owns one for Photoshop, Freehand and Architectural Studio work. Yes its features are useless in Revit but if you are using any of the above programs it i worth the extra money. The main feature that I use (again not for Revit) is the multiple pens. Each pen is uniquely identified so that the behavior is different. I have 4 pens: brush, pencil, airbrush, and stamp. I use 2 pens in freehand for pen vs freehand sketch. The bottons are programmed different for the different features of the tools.

Just a thought though. It would be great if Revit had the ability to recognize the tools as well. Just think a wall pen, a floor pen and a roof pen. LOL Just kidding


Chris

[gregcashen]

The one thing I like about the Graphire 3, and that I am not sure if the Graphire 2 has it, is the "mouse mode" on the pointer. With the pen is on "mouse mode" having the smallest size tablet is not essential because you can pick the pin up and reposition it just like a mouse.

The graphire2 has this feature. In fact, so far as I can tell, the graphire 2 has everything the 3 has and more. I bought one of the 3's when they came out and was disappointed. The only good thing about it is that the pen can be held in the tablet, but I still prefer the 2.

[JamesVan]

We could also look to replace the mouse...

[Steve_Stafford]

You first James...let me know how that wrist feels afteward! :twisted:

[Chad Smith]

I actually have mine setup so that I only use the bottom-left 1/4 of the pad for the whole screen
So if I get the large one I can still set the work space to a small portion of the tablet?

Also, can you also plug a mouse in at the same time, I like to play games from time to time. So can I be working with the tablet and then afterwards load up a game and move straight over to the mouse?

I have just done a quick serach and didn't realise that they were so cheap, otherwise I would have looked into this sooner.

[Les Therrien]

In addition to Chad's questions.

Can you use any mouse or does it have to be theirs?

I just bought a new Logitech 5 button optical. I guess I could use it for my laptop!?

[gregcashen]

[quote:9dcb36d3d8="gregcashen"]I actually have mine setup so that I only use the bottom-left 1/4 of the pad for the whole screen
So if I get the large one I can still set the work space to a small portion of the tablet?

Also, can you also plug a mouse in at the same time, I like to play games from time to time. So can I be working with the tablet and then afterwards load up a game and move straight over to the mouse?

I have just done a quick serach and didn't realise that they were so cheap, otherwise I would have looked into this sooner.[/quote:9dcb36d3d8]

Yes, yes and yes.

[Chad Smith]

Sweeeeeet!! 8) 8)

[Les Therrien]

Thanks! Thanks and Thanks!!!

I'm going shopping!!! :D

[hand471037]

Wow! all you guys are now the Wacom experts! :)

Anyhoo, I've only got two things to add:

one is that you might want to 'choke up' on the pen and hold it a little more vertical than you might with a pencil, so that your fingers can 'drag' a little on the tablet surface; this helps in selection and keeping the pen super steady when clicking/drawing. I've seen people who first start to use Wacom tablets have a hard time clicking on stuff because as they move the pen downward, they also move it in an arc, rather than straight up and down...

two is that the G 3 tablet rocks for laptop users (like me) because the pen can 'dock' into the top of the tablet (there's a little slot for it to dock into). However, my last tablet was a Intous, and if I go back to doing more photoshop stuff I might pick one up, for it does make a difference...

[Chad Smith]

:D 8) :) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :D 8) 8) 8)
I got my Wacom Graphire 3 4x5 this arvo and this thing kicks ***. Even just for general windows usage. I am now smokin around the desktop.

I just love the customisable pop-up menu that they give you in the settings. Even though it isn't program specific, I think it's still very useful.

All the tips like reducing the usage area on the tablet and keeping the pen as vertical as possible all make sense and improve usage.

[beegee]

By the way, for those of you wondering (probably none...) Wacom is pronounced WOCK-em. :wink:

Greg,

I'm having an argument, sorry... a vigorous discussion, with an Australian who insists its pronounced " WACK-em"

Help me out here, where is the official pronunciation spelt out ?

[gregcashen]

Gotta call support. They will happily answer "WOCK-em support, how may I help you." I got into a long discussion with the woman about it. "Why on earth would you guys not put that in your readme? I have been going around like an idiot calling it a WAY-com. Everyone must think I am a dumb or something. [sniffle]"

:wink:

[Steve_Stafford]

Well I'm a redneck amurican and I'm going to call it Waaaaycom as long as I care to...nyaah!

[Scott D Davis]

and jaguar as jagwire
masonry as masonary

and if you are really a redneck....drywall as Sheetrock.

[gregcashen]

and jaguar as jagwire
masonry as masonary

and if you are really a redneck....drywall as Sheetrock.

It's JAG-yoo-ar

Masonary isn't even a word.

And I never learned to read sheetrock, but I can play some metallica by ear.

[Scott D Davis]

Masonary isn't even a word.

Sure it is...I'll use it in a sentence:

"I had a wood fence around my yard, but we tore it down and built a masonary wall!"

(please...know that I'm joking!)

[Scott D Davis]

Dang, still no ZDBB spell check....oh well! I edited, now no one knows what you are talking about! :screwy:

[gregcashen]

No, Scott, now no one knows what YOU are talking about.

:roll:

[mlgatzke]

Scott,

There is a utility called IESpell. It is a spell checker that will run in any IE session. I have it and have begun to use it in ZDBB. It works great.

[Scott D Davis]

Do you have a link? Sounds like somethin' I can really use!

[cccm1863]

I hope the spell checker knows Canadian versions "eh". You know like "color" spells out colour. "Honor" - honour. "Hey its cold up your way." Well you know that there is the truth is the truth is the truth so if its the truth it must be the truth.
You have to be Canadian to get the last one. Its a quote from our last Prime minister.
Wes you know what I mean.

[beegee]

Do you have a link? Sounds like somethin' I can really use!

IESpell link (www.iespell.com/)

[beegee]

Just installed it.

Works great ! As long as you remember to invoke it, :roll: its not automatic.

Nevertheless, a great tool. ( and one thats going to change Steve Stafford's life :P )

[beegee]

In case anyone gets the incorrect idea, Steve is not a subject for cacography, but is more a master of orthography and spends many a long evening toiling away, correcting the posts here.

[Les Therrien]

YES!!!!

Bought the tablet today, and just unstalled it. This thing is so cool! 8)
It's going to take some getting use to though. I'm a lefty and normally use might right hand for the mouse :?
It's very sensitive.

I love new toys!!! :D

Thanks for the info everyone.

[Chad Smith]

One thing I've noticed is how heavy a mouse is now, these things are so light. And being a pen shape the hand is more relaxed and doesn't **** up at the end of the day.

[Scott Hopkins]

Les,

Welcome to the Wacom Club! After just a week of using the Wacom tablet my stylus technique has improved tremendously. The best advice I have read so far is Jeffery's tip to hold the stylus as vertically as possible. It feels a little unnatural at first, but once you get used to this position all of the "shakiness" disappears. Initially I thought I would use the stylus in conjunction with the mouse, but have now found that I use the stylus about 99% of the time. It's a bit like people thinking they'll need a copy of AutoCAD to use in conjunction with Revit. Once you find and get accustomed to the right tool for the job, you'll never want to go back to the old one that you thought you couldn’t live without. I keep the mouse around just in case someone else happens to sit down at my machine.

[Steve_Stafford]

Raising the ante!! I've been fortunate enough to get to demo a Wacom Cintiq 18sx for the last few days and I'm sold. Seriously, it is pretty amazing...if it went to 1600x1200 it would be PERFECT, perfectly unaffordable probably but perfect. I could "live" with the max 1280x1024 though.

I just need to sell a car, some extra stuff and bribe my wife now.

[Gerhard]

YES!!!!

Bought the tablet today, and just unstalled it. This thing is so cool! 8)
It's going to take some getting use to though. I'm a lefty and normally use might right hand for the mouse :?
It's very sensitive.

I love new toys!!! :D

Thanks for the info everyone.

Did you get the Graphire 2 or 3.

Does the majority still think that the Graphire 2 is the better solution?

Gerhard

[Les Therrien]

I got the "3" the smaller one.

The larger tablet is obviously nicer due to the larger real estate, however it's hard to justify the difference in cost difference.

[hand471037]

Actually the larger tablet just tires your arm out. Only get it if you are really doing illistration work, IMHO. ;-)

And the G2 and the G3 are more or less the same, it's the driver under windows that's nicer for the G2. But if you're not a geek, and are just going to use it like a mouse, it doesn't really matter which one you go with.

[MartyC]

Lefty question.........

Ok, I'm a lefty, I mouse with right hand, and keyboard with left hand using Revit. Tablet suggests pen in left hand and re-learn keyboard inputs with right hand.........or forget abount right hand pen stuff, and tablet inputs with right hand as with mouse and left keyboard inputs...........I am confused!

Any Revit left handers out there using a Wacom tablet?? (and what are you doing?)


CheersM

[Chad Smith]

Has anyone tried the new Wacom Intuos 3 (http://www.wacom.com.au/products/intuos3/intuos3_index.html) tablet, with the ExpressKeys and Touch Strips. Not to mention the extra resolution for better picking accuracy, especially on the smaller tablets.

I can see the Touch Strip being useful for zooming, since there is no wheel on the pens.

[hand471037]

no, but I was just eying them. I'd like to try one out first, 'cause it's expensive and I found my last Intous to not be that much of an advantage over the Graphite for what I do to warrant the extra cost.

I still have my heart set on the Cinque, however... sigh... beautiful flatscreen, how I hope someday you'll be mine.

[Chad Smith]

But the Intuos 2 was just a slicker version of the Graphite 3, so the Graphite 3 easily won over the Intuos 2 in terms of money for value.

I think the Intuos 3 with the higher res, buttons and slides, for about the same money as what the old Intuos 2 was, might just well be worth the dollars. I thought someone here might have at least tried it out.

True, a Cintiq would be great to have.

[hand471037]

Actually, the Intuos 2 has twice the resolution of a Graphite 3, as well as Macro Buttons and the ability to use multiple pens/mice/whatever and have the table 'see' which is which and adjust the driver accordingly so that each behaves a certain way within a certain software. it's pretty slick, and not really the same, IMHO.

However, I found that I never used the macro buttons, actually liked the more 'dead' feel of the cheaper tablets (the other always felt too 'twitchy', but that's because I used a cheap Art-Z for years prior to getting the 'pro' Intuos), and never used more than one pen. :)

So for me, once I saw that the Graphite 3 had a pen caddy built-in, I was sold. But now that I'm desk-bound again, and not always mobile, I'm thinking the new Intous 3 might be a good way to go, for I need a wheel but can't use a mouse for very long...

[Thomas Cummings]

Just thought that I would mention that I use the Wacom 8 x 12 and dual 21 inch crt's. As for keyboard input I use the on screen keyboard available in Windows XP and just peck at it with the pen. The on screen keyboard has a "hold " function for shift and control, no jumping back and forth to the keyboard. As far as the tablet I thought bigger would be better but I too have reduced the effective area on the tablet to reduce arm travel.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[hand471037]

My wife just got one of the new Intous 3's. They have some xtra keys and a 'ribbon controler' wah-wah strip thing on them. Even less having to use the keyboard, for things like shift/alt can be tied to the new keys, and zooming to the new ribbon strip...

[Steve_Stafford]

Here's something funny for tablet users...

I printed out a screen capture after Photoshoping to the exact size of the little rectangle of the Graphire 3 (4x5) tablet area. Cut out the Revit screen and put it on the tablet. Just did it as a goof...but the unintended consequence is that putting the pen down on a command or area of the screen actually falls on the object on screen. Thought is was funny and that I'd share. I've attached the image.
The file is really a PSD file extension renamed to zip to allow posting...just rename...

[Chad Smith]

Nice. To take it one step further, you could put all your shortcuts keys/quick reference chart around the image so they lay in the 30-40mm border of the tablet.

[Roger Evans]

It's over a year now since this thread started so what would be the latest feedback / recommendation Type size etc ? ~ (Bear in mind a Cintiq 21 for this boy has to be reserved for another life.)

I have also noticed a few glitches with operation being posted recently & would like to avoid problems like this if possible

[Chad Smith]

It's over a year now since this thread started so what would be the latest feedback / recommendation Type size etc ? ~ (Bear in mind a Cintiq 21 for this boy has to be reserved for another life.)

I have also noticed a few glitches with operation being posted recently & would like to avoid problems like this if possible
I'm still using my Graphire3 4x5 and loving it. You wouldn't need anything larger than 4x5 for CAD work. I would still like to get a larger size Intuos 3 for home for graphics work though.

The only draw back as far as I can see is that I do need to buy a new pen as the nib has worn down and I think it is having an effect on the performance of pen operations.

[hand471037]

My Graphite 3 started having some issues, and I wanted a more comfortable pen, so I recently went and got the Intous 3 instead (the 'pro' model, same as my wife has).

It's been great. I'm not using the side buttons much yet (old habits die hard) but it's more comfortable (better pen) and more accurate (doesn't matter much in Revit, but it does in Photoshop...).

With the new 21" flatpanel ones out, I'm seeing old 15" ones on the local market here used via Craigslist for around $800-$1000 or under. It's certainly tempting, I used Revit on one at AU a while back and it was simply wonderful (other than the low resolution on the 15" model)... and the folks selling them (mostly people in the local animation industry) talk about the flatpanel speeding up their work a great deal... hmm... maybe if I get a ton of production work...

[hand471037]

The only draw back as far as I can see is that I do need to buy a new pen as the nib has worn down and I think it is having an effect on the performance of pen operations.

If you still have the box it came in there are new 'nibs' in there.

they are little white cribbage-board pin-lookin' things. Grab the end of the old one that's still in your pen with a pair of small pliers (or your teeth), and just pull it straight out the end, grab a new one, and shove it right in there...

The pens cost $50, the nibs are cheap and it should have come with more than one. I think I still have my extra ones, I can just mail you one if you want...

[Lashers]

I have had my Intuos (used in another life) cowering under the bed in the spare bedroom! It is the A4 version, this thread has inspired me to dust it off and see if I can set it up to use with Revit.

I do love it - its just that I haven't had the desk real estate to fit it in comfortably! So apologies to you worshippers out there! ha ha . .

[bowlingbrad]

My question is about ergonomics. I have had some wrist/back issues in the past and I don't want to go through that again....

Where do you place the tablet? We use articulating keyboard trays with mouse platforms. Our Steelcase chairs have adjustable arms and we can get in the 'correct' position quite easily. Hey guys, how about some pictures of your setups?

[Roger Evans]

My question is about ergonomics. I have had some wrist/back issues in the past and I don't want to go through that again....

Where do you place the tablet? We use articulating keyboard trays with mouse platforms. Our Steelcase chairs have adjustable arms and we can get in the 'correct' position quite easily. Hey guys, how about some pictures of your setups?


Yeah ... A very useful request / suggestion ( give me 3 weeks for an office clean up & I may just take a photo)

It's the wrist / fingers which prompts me to thinking about changing from a mouse &
I have considered sinking the key board into the desk top to allow for easier action ~ I suppose I could use the same idea with the tablet probably with more benefit ~ but I also need to reexamine working position & desk layout (Right Hand Dominant)

I also like the idea of being able to have further adjustment with keyboard tray / front end of desk ~ so any feedback appreciated

[bowlingbrad]

Here's a pic of my desk. I guess I'm not ashamed of a mess. I don't know where I would use a tablet in this configuration. This is supposed to be an example of good ergonomics (http://www.humanscale.com/ergo_info/index.cfm).

It is also interesting to see how we all spend our days....




P.S. How many of you can say you have an autographed picture of your boss? (See my picture)

[Lashers]

I could have the desk space if i could bring myself to invest in a TFT monitor! Perhaps I should put it another way . . if I had the money! I'll take a picture later . .

[Roger Evans]

if I had the money! .

You have the money its just you haven't been paid it yet

Methinks that TFT is a CRT with a cut out into the next guys space

Anyway you can do what Brad does & have a collecting tin (see green thing bottom left desk)

[Lashers]

You have the money its just you haven't been paid it yet

Methinks that TFT is a CRT with a cut out into the next guys space

Anyway you can do what Brad does & have a collecting tin (see green thing bottom left desk)
Ha . . If I did that the back of the monitor would be outdoors, and therefore having a better life than I! See attached! Note my Wacom propping up the wall, once I can arrange for a new TFT (see Dell is doing a nice 24"!! . . dream on) to be wall mounted, space problems will be a thing of the past!

Edit - Be a good idea to actually attach!!

[John K.]

I tried an off-brand tablet a while back but couldn't make it play nice with my dual-head display [Nvidia GeForce FX 5600]. Looks like a few of you have had success on this front by using Wacom / Graphire? Anyone had difficulties w/same?

Also, recently got into using mouse gestures to run common commands, scripts [ACAD], etc.. and its definitely a plus. I'm using a freeware/shareware package called StrokeIt(! No kidding !) [***Insert porn-surfing one-liners here***]. ;-) These would probably work even better with a pad & stylus(?).

[janunson]

I have the original Intuos tablet and it works great w/ 2 monitors. Also for cool input devices - check out this infinitely customizable keyboard -
http://www.legitreviews.com/article.php?aid=247
http://www.ergodex.com/mainpage.htm

[Tom Dorner]

I just got my new Wacom Intuos 3 4x5 tablet and it is awesome!

I've used the Intuos 2 for a couple of years at home, but finally broke down and got the 3 for work using my own money. (figured it was worth the $$ to save my hand from surgery).

The programmable keys on the Intuos 3 work great in all applications and can be customized for each application. In Revit I have them programmed for the zoom and pan functions. The touch zoom strip also works as a zoom wheel in Revit and can be programmed for your liking.

All in all I would say the Intuos 3 is a huge improvement over 2 and well worth the $$.

Tom

[david.kingham]

My Intous3 has been sitting here collecting dust for the last 6 months, just so damn hard to break the mouse habit, i would just chuck the mouse but I have to use it in acad :(

[cganiere]

Yes you can use any mouse, but only theirs will work on the tablet. I use the pen mostly, but occasionally use the mouse.
At work I use a dell mouse - it is too much hassle to shuttle the tablet back and forth.


In addition to Chad's questions.

Can you use any mouse or does it have to be theirs?

I just bought a new Logitech 5 button optical. I guess I could use it for my laptop!?

[ws]

Being a drummer in a parallel existence I like the 'surround-me-with-a-protective-wall' type approach to Wacoms and screens.

One pen to rule them all, and... er, something like that :roll:

The Canon A1 plotter and general piles of paper are hidden off-shot to the right ;-)

[Lashers]

William! Now thats just not fair! I've tried for two weeks to get my wife/Ministry of Finance to let me get another Dell 24" before the prices went back up . . still looking at the same old screen . . its just not fair!

Qusetion is, can you work them with both hands!! ha . .

[ws]

Qusetion is, can you work them with both hands!! ha . .
Being a drummer, I'm ambi.. am.. er, I can use both hands a bit - but as you can just move the same pen from screen to screen, and I'm very lazy, that's what I tend to do.

er... that was an old picture - I'd better come clean - here's a picture from this morning :Oops:

[Lashers]

er... that was an old picture - I'd better come clean - here's a picture from this morning :Oops:
Ok OK Isn't there some forum rule about not having so much equiptment . . . or Work is not supposed to be fun?? ha . ah. I'm obviously going to have to fire the wife!

I'll have to start keeping my laser survey computer (9" tablet type thing) and laptop on my desk just to feel like adequate! When I get the company camera back from the Ministry, I upload a photo.

[ws]

I'll have to start keeping my laser survey computer (9" tablet type thing)
It's not one of those Skeyepads or similar from Mike Axon is it? I got one before he changed from being Lazercad to Sitemaster and have never got round to using it.

[Lashers]

Arrrrggghhhhhhh! . . sob . .


ha, yes thats correct! I did not really use it as much as I thought I would at first, but I have found that I am using it much more recently and begun to find it quite good - still alot to learn though, probably only using 20% of its ability - they don't seem quite so good on the manual front.

Only issue I have is that I cannot seem to find a good upgrade path for the software!

[ws]

sorry to drift off topic Lashers, but I have often wondered if anyone actually used the Sitemaster software and the pen based device plus Bluetooth laser measure - I've come across people like me who bought the setup but couldn't get training or much assistance and so the gear sits in a corner.

My software was the Lazercad package (by a different German software house) but Mike Axon offered me an upgrade at the Interbuild Exhibition last year and a Flybook laptop... for $$$$... but once bitten.. etc I declined ;)

The Sitemaster software sells in the US as well on a variety of devices but I've no idea how widely it is used.

[VinceFerrero]

Very nice setup William (do you really need all those keyboards though?)

I'm about ready to enter the next phase so I'm looking at different options. I can either buy a tablet PC and have the mobility edge or simply buy a Cintiq and add it on to my existing PC.

Can you give some feedback on them? I take it they are both cintiq models that you have running just different versions. I notice Wacom only sell the 21inch model now.

Any comments would be appreciated.

[ws]

Umm, well, the keyboards relate to the number of PCs attached - incidentally one keyboard is a renovated ancient-but-indestructible IBM keyboard, for touch typing.

I have 3 multi-processor PCs attached but to save power I normally leave the one on far left turned off as it is the oldest and mainly used for scanning, although sometimes I use that screen as a Clone of the middle one for client discussions in the office so that they don't have to look over my shoulder all the time. When all 3 PCs are in use I use the Wacom conventional tablet to enable the same Intuos 3 pen to work on all 3 machines.

The Cintiqs are exquisite - and they are so comfortable to use for extended periods.
However, I do not think the 21" models could realistically be held on your lap for any length of time, as shown in adverts - they are too heavy and the 'umbilical cord' attached to the graphics card is heavy duty and not terribly flexible.

I preferred the slightly older models which had a 'tracing paper' surface with a slight give under pressure, and it extended the full size of the tablet, but the newest models have a harder, brighter screen as a result of ditching that. I am not sure if the change was for economy or user preference.

I've not got into Tablet PCs - my brother has an HP model which is OK, but I would not want to work on it for any length of time.

[VinceFerrero]

Thanks for that. One issue raised earlier seems to be the issue of having the hand obscure what you're working on. Do you find this a problem?

Also, I've found a YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2APo_EORQ) video where one guy uses a two fingered glove (pinkie and ring) made of cloth so, presumably, his hand can slide across the tablet easier. Is there any problem in having your hand, or even the arm, contact the screen for any length of time?

Hope you don't mind all the questions William. Given you have two Cintiq's I'd class you as an authority on them and value your comments.

[ws]

Hmm - it's a bit like having an old drawing board - dust and stuff falls on it - I use one of those microfibre cloths to wipe the surface.
My older Cintiq is a bit scuffed but you don't see that in use, only when it is turned off.

Even with Revit I have left the default browser position on the left - you just get used to it.

For some things a mouse is useful - if only for a change - but mostly I just use the pen... as with real pens I have a bad habit of sticking it in my mouth when typing... Yuk ;)

[VinceFerrero]

Sounds too natural to not take advantage of. Thanks for the comments William.

The landscape in this technology is changing fast with Microsoft's introduction of Surface (http://www.microsoft.com/surface/), Apple's iPhone and rumoured Multitouch computers (http://fingerfans.dreamhosters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=725). I wonder how Wacom plans to maintain it's existence in face of these new trends.

[Chad Smith]

For those thinking about getting into using a tablet, now is probably a great time. Wacom has now released the Bamboo (http://www.wacom-asia.com/bamboo/) model.
Compared to my older Graphire 3 model which I bought for the same price as the Bamboo is going for, this model now has a touch sensitive scrolling/zooming pad and 4 programmable buttons. And it looks sh1t hot.

Here in Australia, they retail for about AU$120, which really isn't a lot. Apparently the pen that comes with the Bamboo has replaceable pen nibs, with means an entire new pen isn't required when the nib wears down.

I think I will be replacing my Graphire 3 with this model soon.

[Chad Smith]

Well my new Bamboo tablet has arrived and after some playing around with it I have some comments.

Firstly, the pen use on the tablet. Compared to my previous Graphire 3 model, this one is very responsive and accurate. The pen tactile feel on the surface is smoooooth, kind of like a high quality ball point pen on paper. The tablet is very thin and has a fairly small footprint on my desk.
My old Graphire 3 has a plastic cover over the tablet area, which I found scratched very easily and in the end made it hard to move the pen when in 'dragging' mode. The Bamboo has what looks to be a hard surface which looks like it might stand up to scratching. Only time will tell. I have set my pressure sensitivity down to minimal, so this might help.
The programmable buttons are just that, nothing special there, but they do have a high gloss finish which attracts finger marks

The Touch Ring is a bit iffy. You can pretty much forget using it in Revit as it is way too slow, and is very jerky when scrolling in Acrobat. But when used in applications like web browsers and MS Office, I find it to be smooth. The Very Fast setting for scroll speed is still not what I would call fast. Hopefully, Wacom might release a new driver which might speed things up.

Overall, the Bamboo shoots the socks off my previous model, and for the price is an extremely good entry level tablet. 4/5

[twiceroadsfool]

I just read through all 9 pages of this post (sad, i know...) and i have a really stupid question:

I have a convertible Tablet PC, and ive used Revit on it, which is great because im looking right at the screen while i tap things with the pen.

These Wacoms though, does anything show up on them? Are are you drawing on them and looking at your screen? Or is it like my tabloet convertible, where the screen IS the drawing surface? Sorry for such a dumb question, LOL...

[Chad Smith]

They act similar to a mouse. You hover the pen over the tablet (no screen), up to 10mm above, and the movements are tracked on screen. The hover distance is a little tricky at first, but you get used to it pretty quickly. While I haven't used one, I would expect all other functions should be like a Tablet PC.

I wish I had a Tablet PC 8).

[ws]

The only Wacoms that act like your tablet PC screen are the Cintiq models - they combine a LCD screen with the Intuos 3 pen/tablet technology.
http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/

[twiceroadsfool]

OOPH! Thats an ugly number posted on that thing... LOL. Thanks for the info :)

[ws]

Umm, well - the best price I can see in the UK for a Cintiq is the equivalent of $4,200 so it isn't as bad as you might think ;)

The original Cintiqs from a few years ago were twice this price but they dropped it once they became popular.

[iru69]

Chad, are you still using your Bamboo? Any update on what you think of it? Did the "zoom" ever get any better with the new drivers?

Well my new Bamboo tablet has arrived and after some playing around with it I have some comments.

Anyone else use the Wacom Bamboo? Does anyone have experience with both the Bamboo and the Intuos 3 and can compare the two?

Is there anyone who was previously in the "Tablet Rocks!" camp who stopped using it because after a while, no matter how neat it was, it ended up being a drag for everyday use?

Or maybe someone would like to reiterate how much they rock!

I've read all the threads - I'm again contemplating the purchase of one - but I was just wondering if anyone had anything new to say about them.

Thanks!

[ws]

Funnily enough I have just put aside my 2 Wacom Cintiq screen/tablets because of repetitive strain problems with my shoulder.
The double click using the Wacom Intuos 3 pen in particular seems to put quite a strain on the tendon at the top of the shoulder. This is ironic because I switched from mice for just this sort of thing :roll: ;)

I have looked at lots of alternatives but for the moment I am using an A4 Wacom regular tablet but with the tablet buttons set up so that I can 'click' using my left hand and wave the pen around with my right. The reduction in elevation of the arm while using the regular flat Wacom seems more comfortable than using the Cintiq screen/tablet.

There are ergonomic mice around - http://www.aerobicmouse.com - and software that clicks for you on the same site, but IMHO there isn't really anything that feels nicer than holding a pen - although if it worked with Revit it would be nice to try a spacepilot device.
I would never go back to using just a mouse.

[Chad Smith]

Yep, still using the Bamboo on a daily basis. Just wish I had one for home too.

The scroll pad and extra buttons are certainly gimmicks, and I find I don't use them, except for maybe backwards and forwards in a web browser.

The Zoom still sucks, so I still use the CTRL button to zoom in Revit.
I still find the narrow thickness great, and I haven't had a single glitch in responsiveness or accuracy yet.

Just wish there were USB multi-touch pads around for my other hand to use.

[ws]

While looking around for more input alternatives I came across this new (to me anyway) Wacom 'portable cintiq' affair...
http://www.tablet4u.co.uk/product/en/cintiq-12wx-lcd-tablet.html

Looks very cool although I think I might want to try one out first.

review here:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/156453/wacom-cintiq-12wx.html

[mlgatzke]

I have a Bamboo, but don't use it for Revit. When I'm working in Revit, or almost any other program, I still use my mouse. It's more comfortable for me in most situations. About the only thing I use my Bamboo for is PhotoShop and programs like it, where the pressure sensativity is valuable.

I also have the Intuos 3 9x12. I thought that using the larger surface on the 9x12 would be better than a smaller surface. Boy was I wrong! I like using the smaller Bamboo MUCH better. Sure, the Intuos has more values of pressure sensativity, but the size (and cost) of the Bamboo are much more appealing. Also, the Intuos comes with a mouse/puck and the Bamboo does not, but if you keep your mouse handy, it doesn't matter.

[iru69]

Thank you all for your insights!

mlgatzke, may I ask why you don't use the Bamboo for revit? Is it physically uncomfortable, or is just difficult to perform tasks within the software?


I have a Bamboo, but don't use it for Revit. When I'm working in Revit, or almost any other program, I still use my mouse. It's more comfortable for me in most situations. About the only thing I use my Bamboo for is PhotoShop and programs like it, where the pressure sensativity is valuable.


Very interesting... I notice that on the wacom website, they make a big deal out of tilting the tablet up like some kind of artist's easel... but it just looks very uncomfortable to use it that way all day. But man, that would be pretty cool to be drawing right on top of a big screen like that.


Funnily enough I have just put aside my 2 Wacom Cintiq screen/tablets because of repetitive strain problems with my shoulder.
The double click using the Wacom Intuos 3 pen in particular seems to put quite a strain on the tendon at the top of the shoulder. This is ironic because I switched from mice for just this sort of thing :roll: ;)

[ws]

The problem I find with the Cintiq 21" models is that although you can sort of lean on them like you could with an old drawing board, you tend to hold your hand in mid-air rather than resting it on the surface. I could never find quite the right tilt angle to be really comfortable - the base on the unit on top of a typical desk is again slightly high for me even when laid flat.

As for having it on your lap, it's really too heavy for that - and the 'umbilical cord' comes out of the middle of the back of the unit (through the centre of the bezel that sits in the stand allowing it to rotate) and while well built isn't very flexible.

There is a very slight 'drift' between the pen point and the cursor position over the entire screen - top right and bottom left are typically difficult to reach even after spending a lot of time on the calibration.

For Photoshop work and the like it is superb - for cad it is a nice change.

Anyway, FWIW for the moment I am sticking with a regular Wacom tablet and have ordered a wide A5 Wacom to match the wide 30" Eizo I've also just ordered ;)

[mlgatzke]

mlgatzke, may I ask why you don't use the Bamboo for revit? Is it physically uncomfortable, or is just difficult to perform tasks within the software?

I have found that it is difficult to hold the stylus still when you are lowering it for a "click" to select or place something. The mouse gives me a much more reliable result for positioning or selecting items. The Cintiq would probably be better because you are actually looking at the tip of the stylus (like a pencil on a board) instead of looking at the screen, but moving you hand in another location. It just isn't a "natural" feeling action to me.

[JASONM30395]

I have found that it is difficult to hold the stylus still when you are lowering it for a "click" to select or place something. The mouse gives me a much more reliable result for positioning or selecting items.


Hey guys, Used to have a logitech roler ball, but I actuall wore a grove in my "left click" button over 8 years of service so I've been using a Bamboo for 2 weeks now in ACAD and Civil 3D. It works "OK". I find the best place for the pen when you are typing is "behind the ear" (I did board draughting what can I say???) I have to agree with mlgatzke that when trying to do OSNAPS the pen is a little "jerky" and I'm trying to avoid so much going back to a mouse. I tried the "holding it straight up" trick and it helped a little but there are still times when I'm "cruzzin" that I miss and it really takes you out of the grove if you do that 3-4 times in a row. Also the "extra" keys are not all that helpfull, in my opinion. my zoom circle works when it feels like it and the 4 buttons are ehhhh...

[iankids]

Hi All,

Based on the enthusiastic tablet users here, I recently purchased a Wacom Bamboo.

It took me about a day to get used to it.

Now, if someone want to take away my pen, they will need to remove my arm at the shoulder joint!

It is so, so much nicer than a mouse. (Has the added advantage of keeping my son off my work computer!!)

Cheers,

Ian

[Batman]

I also have the Bamboo. I have trouble getting used to it and wouldn't mind some tips if someone could offer.

I sometimes get the 'shakes', just very small tremors in my hand, nothing serious. But in translates on screen and I see my pointer do the same when pen is in hand. It makes me hesitant to attempt any file operations because I'm worried that I'll end up accidentally moving or deleting and entire network folder.

How do others cope with this sort of thing?

[iankids]

Hi Batman,

I too had the shakes for a while - still do from time to time -but found that if I am direct and strong with the action, rather than slowly trying to pick something it all goes very well indeed.
I find I need to zoom in and out a little bit more than I used to but I think that to will settle down over the next day or week.

I hope it works out well for you.

Cheers,

Ian

[samov]

I own an Intuos 3 a5 wide to go with my wide monitor...

I use it for digital drawing... but i have to say... nothing beats the speed of the keyboard and mouse in revit (shortcuts, plus a good mouse with more than 1000 dpi)

BUT... you can try to use Revit on a tablet PC... mainly a wacom tablet with the lcd underneath ... it does bring out a whole different picture of how things work... still not as fast as the keyboard and mouse combination... but sometimes it's better to draw slower and give it more thought... not the autocad style break the space bar 5 clicks a second extravaganza...

[Andre Baros]

Has anyone tried one of these yet?

a Thinkpad W700 with a Wacom Trackpad in the wrist rest

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=F2A3EC7C45634AE8AB0F26CCAC867854

[Tobie]

Just got given a Wacom Bamboo.
I was wondering how people use the tablet to compensate for the lack of the mouse trackweel for zoom and 3D rotate with "Shift".
Would be good to see how people are using the tablet settings.
Cheers,

[Chad Smith]

If it's not already set, in the Tablet properties set one of the buttons on the side of the pen to Middle mouse click. Then you can use that button in conjunction with Shift and CTRL for zoom and orbit.
That's what I do.

I also have the Tracking option set to Pen Mode.

[saeborne]

Reading through this thread, you guys have got me really interested in a tablet.

Here's a question though... Do you guys still use keyboard shortcuts with the tablet, or do you pretty much hit buttons with the stylus?

[Chad Smith]

Yes, I still rely heavily on keyboard shortcuts. In my opinion, they are still the fastest way to interact with Revit.

[Batman]

I gave the tablet a go.

I actually purchased a few...returned them to the store shortly afterwards becuase I didn't think they were worth the money in comparision for any speed improvement (which in reality was very very small).

I settled on a Bamboo given it was not as expensive as their other models but the eye-hand disjoin is still an issue for me. I want to pen straight onto my screen.

Thankfully there is a lot of new, and inexpensive technology coming out that will make this common place within a year or two.

[Andre Baros]

I've been using a tablet PC for over a year now (almost 2) and didn't see any huge advantages in my key applications. Yes it's great for photo editing and painting but not really any better for me for Revit or Max or Ecotect... mostly because I rely on the keyboard so much in those apps and it's impossible with any setup I've tried to have good access to both the keyboard and the tablet. Also, the video cards on tablets are all underpowered for any real content creation apps.

[saeborne]

So... I went out a bought a Wacom tablet. I really wanted one for photoshop work, so I figured I would give it a whirl for revit too.

Newb question... When you're working in Revit with a Tablet, How do you zoom in and out, as I normally would with the mouse scroll wheel?

Thanks in advance.

Bryan

[ws]

In Intuos 3 use the slide strip, in Intuos 4 use the slide wheel - much the same really.

[Tobie]

I work on a tablet and just saw this, could be nice in Revit.

http://vimeo.com/6712657

[Tobie]

Has anyone started using the Bamboo Pen & Touch?

[samov]

I'm getting one next week :D... The medium version (the bigger one)
Pen should be just like plain old pen...
Touch should be like a HUGE touchpad :))

[narlee]

I work on a tablet and just saw this, could be nice in Revit.

http://vimeo.com/6712657

TOO COOL!!!!!!!!

[Tobie]

Hi samov.
I have mine now for 1 whole day and have not really looked into it too much. I still use a relatively small area with the pen for Revit. Big touchpad is nice. Do you know if it is possible to have the two fingered gesture work in Revit. I was going to have a look at that today during lunch and will post if I manage.

[tyrone.marshall.152843]

Just switched over to the Bamboo pen tablet. I also have a Intuos 3 at home. I find that the mapping mode helps a lot to adapt to program uses. Most software is setup to use the mouse mode of the pen with Photoshop using the pen mode mostly.

I have the top side button as the right click and use the bottom side button as the pan scroll button.

The mode option seems to be the winner as the pointer stays in the same position when the pen is put down and picked back up and place to hover over the tablet. Previously I had the tablet set to pen mode and the pointer always moved whenever I picked up the pen - very annoying. The mouse mode makes it act just like the mouse did when you hands leave the mouse to type or somethig.

I now need to find something to stick the pen into when I am not using it for the Bamboo so when I switch to type it is a easy motion to move back to pen and then back to keyboard.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

May I suggest a low tech solution? Shirt pocket or behind your ear just like a pencil (remember those? :lol:)
A slightly higher tech answer; a little piece of adhesive backed velcro with a 'stciking' pad on the side of you rmonitor or top of your keyboard somewhere.:beer:

[Grayham]

Hi

Has anyone had any experience with the wacom bamboo touch?

Thanks