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View Full Version : On / Off parameters & visibility quirks



corinoco
2004-03-25, 03:22 AM
I don't know how long the on / off parameters have been in Revit - I know I used on/off (yes/no) back in 5.1, but I only just today learned that you can control visibility with them!

Hurrah! I have been looking for this functionality for ages! And it was right under my nose all along.

So I immediately got to creating some new families to test it out - specifically a door with a catflap. There seems little point to me in having a complete seperate door type for door-with-catflap, I just want a tick-box in my schedules.

So with glee I set a void to have it's Visibility parameter linked to an on/off parameter called Catflap and.......! Nothing happened. :(

"Wierd, it works for everything else" I mutter, while WB glares at me because I am mucking with families rather than completing a DA report.

Some experimentation, and I find it *doesn't* work for everything else! At first I thought it only worked with Symbolic or Detail lines. OK, fair enough, but WHY is the parameter there on everything else? Then I found it worked on model lines too, dispelling my theory that it only worked on 2D elements. OK, maybe it doesn't work on parametric elements. Nope - it worked on a line that gets moved by a parametric dimension. OK, now I am getting annoyed. Let's try and array some lines - THAT doesn't work - the lines turned on and off before they were arrayed, but not after. It won't work on groups at all it seems - groups don't have the 'Visibility' parameter to set.

So, the situation (as seen in my attached RFA file) is this: On/Off works REALLY WELL for a limited set of elements. What defines an element's ability to be turned on and off is either too complex or vague or both for us without a Dev edition (that's a HINT) to nut out.*

To make matters slightly more confusing, almost every element actually HAS a Visibility parameter, it just doesn't seem to make any difference to most objects, in particular, solids and voids. Needless to say, those objects I most want to turn onn/off!

Hopefully I am missing something very obvious here, and there is some little setting** that makes it all work.

If not, can this please be made to work? I don't have enough adjectives to describe how useful this would be...

Cheers,

Adrian Esdaile

* translation: "nut out"; to think really hard, figure something out; as in 'I can't nut out this tax return form.'

** what I call the 'Disney Button' - you just press it and everything suddenly looks like a Disney production*** and you can go home

*** Can you actually use the term 'Disney' without having to pay a licence fee?

sbrown
2004-03-25, 03:32 AM
I think you need to use this feature with nested families to achieve some of what you want. Ie make a sep sill family or in your case a door with a cat door, then nest it into a door family with a solid door panel and apply the view toggle to the nested family. I'm not positive, I haven't had time to play with this much, it is new to 6.1.

beegee
2004-03-25, 04:06 AM
From the 6.1 Release Notes :-


Parametrically Change Visibility
Visibility of solid elements and nested families can be controlled parametrically. Each such element has a visibility property. This property’s value can be set explicitly, or driven by the value of a Yes/No parameter. When invisible, elements do not disappear. They continue to participate in join geometry. Voids cannot be controlled in this way.

Scott Davis
2004-03-25, 04:06 AM
Dangit beegee! :shock: I just got done typing the same thing! :evil: Now editing my post just to include the Url for the release notes.... :wink:

http://revit.autodesk.com/EN/6_1/documents/Release_Notes.htm

(edited again to add a bunch of :D :D :D so you know i'm just kidding!)

corinoco
2004-03-25, 04:45 AM
Yes, you are absolutely right!

The 'Visible' parameter does not work on voids (aside: they why is it there?)

You might want to change the release notes to say: "The 'Visible' paramter does not work if the family HAS a VOID in it, EVEN IF the void does not touch any solids."

Try it - put a void in a family - Bingo! Visible settings are now broken. Take void out of family - Bingo2! Visible settings work again.

Again, if this worked it would be SO useful - "Want muntins with that window, sir?" YES/NO

The fact that it doesn't work if there are voids present is just plain weird. It is only solid geometry in the family that is affected by this, not linework. Again, wierd.

By the way, this is all coming about due to a Revit customer wanting a window with fully parametric muntin bars - using a conditional statement to work out what to display when you have 0, 1 or 2+ panes. They have got the conditional and the array working, but the yes/no settings don't work because of a void in the sill :roll:

Needless to say, I think a lot of people would like to see a family like this!

Hmmm, think of a solution - would using a shared parameter allow you to pass data from one family up into another? ie, can a nested family use the width parameter set from the family that it is nested into?

I won't even mention the "can't use an opening AND a void" thing!

Cheers,

Adrian

beegee
2004-03-25, 05:27 AM
Again, if this worked it would be SO useful - "Want muntins with that window, sir?" YES/NO

By the way, this is all coming about due to a Revit customer wanting a window with fully parametric muntin bars - using a conditional statement to work out what to display when you have 0, 1 or 2+ panes. They have got the conditional and the array working, but the yes/no settings don't work because of a void in the sill :roll:

Adrian
Adrian,

You may have missed THIS POST (www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2983&highlight=) by Scott Davis...

http://www.zoogdesign.com/forums/phpBB2/download.php?id=1733

corinoco
2004-03-25, 06:55 AM
Yes, I did miss that post!

Looks like I am not the only one excited by all of this!

I just spent the whole afternoon working this out, and managed to produce the attached family - a window with horizontal mullions that you simply set with a number.

You enter 0 - a conditional turns off all mullions

You enter 1 - a conditional turns on the single middle mullion

You enter 2 or more - a conditional turns off the single mullion, turns on an array. The array is controlled by a conditonal that stops nasty divide by zero problems (I had to use a variable parameter to do this - turns out I couldn't enter the formula straight into the array as I had hoped). Finally the array is centered to always produce even pane sizes.

With a bit of modification, this can be modified to do both vertical mullions as well, and you have just turned a multi-megabyte family library into a ~150kB file! :D :D :D :D :D :D

This is SO COOL.

Whack in a few different head and sill profiles, and it might be 200kB! OK, so we can't use voids, but there are ways and means around that, as I am discovering.

Cheers

Adrian Esdaile

[edited a few times to clear up excited spelling mistakes and forget my attachments error]

PeterJ
2004-03-25, 10:14 AM
That's an excellent piece of work, well done Adrian

Michael Coviello
2004-10-01, 02:19 PM
I'm trying to develop a window family with 2 on/off parameters for different types of grille patterns.(andersen half round) sunburst and renaissance pattern. both parameters show up as (default) is there a way to have 2 yes/no parameters? In other words, i'd like to turn one pattern off and the other on or have no grilles at all. Here's what i have so far. Any help is appreciated. thanks.

Steve_Stafford
2004-10-01, 02:27 PM
You're really close...

The muntins need to have their "visible" parameter assigned to your yes/no parameters. (nevermind the sloppy circle over Visiblity...it's supposed to be around Visible only)

sfaust
2004-10-01, 03:42 PM
Do you have a gray drawing background?

Steve_Stafford
2004-10-01, 04:04 PM
Do you have a gray drawing background?Me? No...the gray is the wall the window is in, if you are reacting to the image.

Michael Coviello
2004-10-01, 07:14 PM
I got it! Thanks for the help.
I was getting tired of placing a window then a separate muntin component then shutters. Most frustrating is when you move the window, the muntins and shutters didn't go with the window. I would love to see the Andersen window/door catalog 'revitized'
I've seen the fixed and double hungs but the specialty shapes and their muntin possibilities are very important.
I added a parameter to control the exterior sill trim height (for direct set w/other windows). Assembling the window components in a project is time consuming; so the more flexibility within any family the better. Are there any adverse effects that I'm not seeing? In other words, will i see a drain on performance??