Importing Revit into Max, no longer attaches objects by layer or material

[Jgrigsby]

I have noticed that when Importing Revit, or even AutoCAD for that matter, Into Max 8, that it nolonger attches objects by layer or material. In days of Old, before DWG linking, this feature was invaluable. IMO DWG linking serves little purpose to those of us in the Artistic end of the visualazation field. I commonly get large revit and AutoCAD files and have to assemble them manually.

By Assembling, I mean attaching all the like materialed objects into one object, instead of meerly grouping them into layers.


Why would one do this? It speeds the display and Max file TREMENDOUSLY. Having thousands of tiny unattached objects simply slows these max files ntil they are unusable.

Why woudl anyone want this
Well I guess a handfull of people actually use the DWG linkig, certainly it must save them a few seconds a day over re-importing. Unfoprtunately it makes life for the rest us miserable

somebody please tell me there is a way arouind this. Since Max 4, I spend way too much time imporiing files and little time actually lighting and rendering them.

[Steve_Bennett]

You should have the option to choose by layer/material in the options for the file link. It will not assume you want to do this, you must tell it to do so. The reason it does not automatically do this is because there are more options now.

[Jgrigsby]

as I said, I do not use file linking. I simply import the files. By your response, I am left to assume you do not understand the nature of the problem

I do not want a million block references, cropping boundries, xref tags etc... I also do not want 2000 individual objects representing a layer, I would like for Max to attach them all together like it did in older versions. trying to do so manually will cause max to Ram out. I spent 10 hours attaching a model last week just so we could even mork in it.

In a 1.5 million poly architectural model, Importing the file in the way Max is intending, 10's of thousands of individual object simply grouped together r on a layer, the file is completely unusable. It takes 30-40 seconds just to refresh the screen. Attaching all the objects allows you to manipulate the model in real time.

I am not the only one with this gripe. Several of us met in Boston this past weekend for the Sigraph, and belive me this was a hot topic. The people at the Autodesk booth looked at us dumbfounded when we suggested that it would be nice to diable object linking and have the ability to import layers into single pieces of Geometry. I guess one would have to actually work on these files to understand that is is a complete failure on large models.

I have evn had several architects send me theitr revit models, then come to our office and marvel over the fact that you could actually manipulate the view ports in max instead of waiting 30-40 seconds for a re-draw. They offered to even buy it back from us, so I guess in a way Autdesks inefficiency is generating profit. It also happens to be cutting intop my free time when I stay up until 4 in the morning manually attaching objects together, crossing my fingers that Max may ram out.

Jeff

[Steve_Bennett]

I do understand what you are saying about not wanting billions of polys in your scene. I am simply trying to understand the process you are using to import models into MAX so we can have a common reference point.

In the attached pic, is this not the same screen you get when importing?

If yes, then I take it the option "Combine Objects ByLayer" does not accomplish what it is you're looking for?

[Jgrigsby]

No, combine objects by layer does nothing. that button worked in version 6.0, but it is still only grouping objects and not attaching them. There is a huge difference, believe me. My file would be unworkable if I did not take the 10 or so hours to manually attach all the objects together. Ideally I could say Edit Mesh, Attach all, but this causes Max to Ram out and Crash every time.



I do not mind high poly gon counts, just not exploded into a million seperate objects. Older version of Max allowed you to editmesh>attachobject on all imported geometry and brought 1 single mesh object in for every layer. This was great, it created very fast and efficient files

For example If you had a file with layers


Windows
Doors
Walls
Glass
etc..

Right now it brings in a list that looks like


Layer:walls
Layers:walls01
Layer:walls02
.
all the way up to Layer:walls12499

By having this many seperate objects, you essentially slow down the scene dramitically


I can have a scene with 2 million polygons in which all the objects are attched into one mesh and it works fine, no display slow-downs to speak of, and no long delays opening, refreshing, and rendering. This is the way Max prefers to organize data, it has always been that way

Now if you have a scene with 2 million polys, but they are spilt into 50k objects with 6 polys each, then you have a huge mess. Max freaks out and can not display properly, and you have to sit through 30-40 second waits everytime you do something in the scene, this is not acceptable.

the problem is that OBJ linking forces max to keep all the objects seperate. It would not be that big a deal to do an edit mesh command and attach all the objects by layer, the problem is that this can take hours manually. This used to just import this way, now it nolonger does,

Thanks for your help

[Steve_Bennett]

Well this has been enlightening to me and I appreciate your sharing the problem.

I'm curious, do you have the same issues if you import an ADT model and tell the import to "create one scene object for each ADT object"?

[Jgrigsby]

Yes, I think I had that option available one one import, and it still gave me seperate objects. Whether or not the client used ADT is beyond me.



We are currently consulting for a very large architecture firm who is probably owns 2000 seats of AutoCAD worldwide. Their Top 3D Specialist internally could not even import the model into max. They ended up buying it right back from us after I attached everything. If the top 3D guy for one of the worlds largest architectural firms could not figure it out, then it should tell you something.

Very little though has been put into this import proces from ADT/ACAD into MAX. I have been in this busniness since 92, and let me say that with each new relase of Max, the import process has only gotten more complicated. If you want my honost opinion, DWG file linking is a complete bust and needs to be re-thought.

I appreciare your time looking into this

[Jgrigsby]

BTW, do you have an FTP I can upload a couple files to? one is an 80 meg DWG we imported, then corresponding max file that has all the geometry attached with an edit mesh command.

I think you will be astounded by the difference in performance between the two files.

[Steve_Bennett]

BTW, do you have an FTP I can upload a couple files to? one is an 80 meg DWG we imported, then corresponding max file that has all the geometry attached with an edit mesh command.

I think you will be astounded by the difference in performance between the two files.PM has been sent for FTP site. I would be very interested to see this (not that I don't believe you).

[dellis]

I've just run into this. I'm not familiar with Revit at all but i've been helping a buddy out with his models...my thoughts were:

-Not sure what the options are in Revit but maybe another file format would be better suited for exporting. (ie. better import options to MAX)
-Scripting a solution in MAX (which i'm looking into right now) to automate all the attaching.

Its not so much of a problem for smaller models but man this is a pain for the big ones. I don;t necessarily feel the performance hit that much...its the impact on my workflow. There is so much added time before i can even get down to texturing, lighting and rendering. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread....


-------------------------------
Dwayne D. Ellis

[markj]

This is has been a big deal for me as well, I have the same gripes...
importing .dwg files into Max is know much more difficult to do without a doubt

My work around for now is to save drawings (have clients save) in AutoCAD 2000/LT format and Import using a pre service pack 3, without "real drawing", install of 3ds max...
This method works as it did with the older versions of max...prior to real drawing "upgrade"

Also, another gripe, the 3dsout command (export to 3ds) used to be a valuable tool for this type of work flow issue. Opp's, now AutoCAD 2007 no longer has that comand availabe...


Mark Jackson

[Arnel Aguel]

I do agree with Jgrigsby, this issue needs to be addressed by autodesk a large project model in revit when file link to viz/max will hit a tremendous slow down which sometimes almost become unworkable. One thing that helps though is that turning off layers of elements that will not show up in the rendering.

I will also give a try your way of attaching elements that belong to the same layer/material sounds like this a great idea except of course that we have to do it manually and spend countless hours of doings this.

[jboone4]

Not sure if you are using the proper import or not but I'm not having any problems with layers. I think that any construction lines too should not be imported and should be named with differant prefix names. Also NEVER import just a line, (they should all be 3d solids, faces or thickened polylines) that will kill 3ds max.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3577/augitipxm5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4026/augitipke9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Arnel Aguel]

Any progress on this issue has anybody found a work around how to manage this millions of objects from revit? or better yet founf a solution how to merge object by layer?

[Steve_Bennett]

I am also curious to see if you have been able to try the new import options for MAX 9. I don't have huge model to try importing so I still don't know if they fixed it or not other than them having added a new way to bring in objects.

[Arnel Aguel]

I am also curious to see if you have been able to try the new import options for MAX 9. I don't have huge model to try importing so I still don't know if they fixed it or not other than them having added a new way to bring in objects.Whether we use file link or import combining by layer does nothing to the model you still have those millions of objects. I don't know if its a bug or what? I still remember the early releases of max version 3, 4 ,5 this combine by layers works well and tidy up imported dwg objects.

[Steve_Bennett]

What about saving a 3D model from AutoCAD as a DXF and importing that? What about keeping an older version of MAX around just for import purposes?

[Arnel Aguel]

What about saving a 3D model from AutoCAD as a DXF and importing that? What about keeping an older version of MAX around just for import purposes?Dwg or dxf are all just the same they won't solve the issue. I guess we have to look for our old version of max just to sort out this issue but we might be having issue again with the dwg file that will be spit out by revit if that can also be handled by the older version of max.. geezzzeeee.

[dellis]

I think this is a feasable work around.....depending on how many layers you have of course. Might be a way to automate it through scripting as well.

Import or link as you normally would and under the "Derive AutoCAD Primitives by" dropdown, choose the "One Object" option. Then go to the layers tab and import them individually. they come in really, really fast...i'm sure faster then bringing it all in and then attaching it. not an elegant solution but it works.

[mark.193723]

I joined this user group just to voice up in this thread.

This issue has been around for WAY TOO LONG!!
and I can't beleive I am the only one facing it.. as I have imagined over many years.

Back when I was using 3d studio on dos, I used to export a REL12 dxf file from Acad12. Thing is I STILL DO IT.

The magical properties of the rel 12 dxf file, an oldy but a goodie. Over the years, I have waded through many many releases of this product.. many fraught with danger, losing the innocent along it's treacherous path. I clung closely to the rel 12 dxf the entire way... often trying a dwg file here.. a different dxf version there... ohh here's a way to link your revit file to max.. ohh.. its useless...

Anyways.. just upgraded to 2009 design.. damn can you get any more confusing autodesk with your software versions?.. tried out his fbx thingomajig, thinking finally they have solved it... and ohh surprise ..its USELESS too.

It's simple enough what is required... why is it so hard to acheive?

REVIT or AutoCAD straight to Max - 1 operation.. giving you an optimised file with the layers converted to objects so you can assign a material to that object... for example, generating maybe 10-20 objects to assign materials to.

Then.. the dream is to take the file back and forth between products.. yeah thats a stretch.

Anyway, this is my process for REVIT to MAX.

Your in revit.. you export whatever dwg version you like.. but in the export dialogue you go
OPTIONS
LAYER SETTINGS
LOAD
then load the file I attached to this post called "AF_exportlayer-settings.txt", this file will minimise the amount of layers generated from revit in your dwg file.

Ok, now open the file in Acad,
Explode the hell out of it.. keep exploding.. yep some more... till it won't explode any more!
then type DXFOUT
TOOLS
OPTIONS
tick select objects (this means you phiscially select what you want to export, in autocad this is a good way of cleaning your fille and not picking up something dark and nasty lurking in the back of the file)
OK.. name it.. select it.. done.

Import that sucker into MAX.. walah.
This process works in every single version of ACAD since R12 dos.. its solid and efficient but lengthy.. and I am sick and tired of doing it so please show me a better way.

Thats my 2cents.
Cheers

[spicycupnoodle]

Thanks for your sharing Mark,
I was always want to reorganize the Layer Export setting in Revit but it seems too complicate and I am not even sure that it makes any difference. I will try your setting soon.

I have same problem to import Revit model into Max. The exported DWG file only 4MB but it expands to 80MB in Max. My solution is link DWG file and select the Layer(s) I want to import as ONE OBJECT, and this method makes Max working a lot faster. But yes, the drawback is I have to link the same DWG file couple times. However, there are some objects need to be assigned in different materials, which contained in the same Layer. So for certain layers I still need to import them as LAYER, which retains separate objects.

Now I have another thought. Maybe I can open the DWG file in AutoCAD then reorganize the Layer and attach the objects. Can I?