Receptacle Family

[jason.combs]

Attached are two families of receptacles. I am attempting to simply copy a.rfa and make b.rfa. I need to simply rotate the symbol around and move the label. I can work my way through editing the family and saving it. However unlike a.rfa, b.rfa will not display GFCI when inserted as a GFCI.

Any help is appreciated.

[dbaldacchino]

Hey Jason,

Please see the attached image. The symbol in the receptacle family "b" is a nested Annotation family. That family has a label, which you need to connect back to a parameter in the host family "b". So select the symbol, click Properties and notice under "Identity Data", there is a parameter "Label", which is a text parameter. Click that little button on the right and a dialog opens, where you can select the parameter to associate it to. That dialog will only show you available parameters of the same type. If for instance "Label" was an integer parameter, it wouldn't appear in the list. If "Label" wasn't already present in the host family (can be any name, not necessarily called "Label"), you could add a parameter through this dialog or through the Family Types dialog. The advantage of doing it through this dialog instead of Family Types is that it will automatically choose the right parameter type for you (it will be greyed out), while doing it through Family Types, you'll have to choose the correct parameter type yourself.

Now, to move the label to where you want it, you need to edit the nested annotation family by selecting it and clicking on "Edit Family". Move the label where you want and load that annotation family back into the Receptacle family "b". Now you can load this into a project or save the family, and you're done! Hope this explains it well.

[jason.combs]

I almost follow you. I am confused as to why there is (at least in a.rfa) a Duplex Annotation Family and a Symbol Label Family. I appears that a standard receptacle has the option for a user input label and the GFCI has only the GFCI label by parameter.

Please reply with some closing thoughts on the matter and we can put this behind us!

[jason.combs]

Update. I am seeing how this works.

Element
Family - Receptacle
Type -
Standard - Blank Label Parameter
GFCI - GFCI is the Label Parameter

There was a Symbol Label nested family that should not have even been there!

[jason.combs]

Okay. I am a little further along. Attached is what I have come up with. However, when I attach the receptacle to a wall, Revit offsets it. How do I set the constraint to set right on the wall face.

TIA

[dbaldacchino]

Jason, take a look at this. I renamed the "Symbol Label" nested family as "ALT Annotation" (alternate annotation symbol). I'm not sure whether this symbology is for a different country ot what (I'm not an electrical engineer as you can tell!). I also set the Label parameter in it to an instance parameter. I reloaded it back to the family and connected the Label param. in that nested family to the Label param. of the host family. Then I also assigned a family parameter so I can swop between the two annotations (Duplex and ALT) and create multiple types (see param. "Symbology", under Graphics in the Family Types). So now you have a "Standard" type using the Duplex annotation with nothing typed in the "Label" param., a "GFCI" type using Duplex Annotation with "GFCI" in the "Label" param., and an "ALT" type using the "ALT annotation" with "ALT" as the "Label" param. So as you can see, you can have multiple nested families that you can interchange. Of course, you could have controlled that symbology within one annotation family by using some visibility parameters, but this way works too.

When I place this on a wall, it attaches to the face. See if this version solves your problem. Also, realize that the family is visible in 3D or elevation only in Fine detail. You can change these visibility settings in your family. It seems that you need to create a new family with a rotated symbol and label depending on which side of the wall you're placing it. I'm not very familiar with how these drawings need to look.

[phyllisr]

Okay. I am a little further along. Attached is what I have come up with.
As an FYI, something I discovered quite by accident and subsequently corrected (and which I plan to post when done), the plan view representation for all the outlets is generic annotation so the display is controlled with any other generic annotation. I happen to have added objects styles (subcategory of for Electrical, Data and Communications) in generic so we could control the symbol display independently depending on what was in our scope of work and what was not... Had to save the symbol outside the family to do it but it was worth it. Could also change the annotation family I suppose (maybe electrical fixtures?) but then you do not have something separate for data/communications.

Someone else may have found this already but for those of us who are newbies, it was a bit of a surprise. May be transparent if you were not using other generic annotation. I was not so lucky...

[dbaldacchino]

It's always good practice to add subcategories as required to control visibility. Another way of achieving what you're trying to do without using subcategories is by using different nested generic annotations within the receptacle family and assign a label parameter to it. Then just go to the type properties of that family within a project and change the nested family with whatever family has the correct visibility settings that suit your needs. The example I posted (with the two different representations in plan) is an example of that method.

[jason.combs]

Is it possible to instead of having a text label, use a poche (hatch) to color a portion of the symbol in a Family Type but be part of the Family?

[dbaldacchino]

Hey Jason,

I think you can, but I'm not sure if you can control visibility of the hatch "intelligently". For instance if you want to do the same in a door tag, you basically have to create a new door tag with the filled region and swop the tag, because you cannot control the visibility of the filled region with an instance/type parameter.

[phyllisr]

...not sure if you can control visibility of the hatch "intelligently"...
It's sort of possible but takes an extra step. Can do it if you nest a detail component that happens to have a hatch - means you only have to make it once for each shape as well. You can then assign a visibility parameter to the component instead of trying to assign it to a hatch. Excellent suggestion...

[pellerin]

Jason,
One problem that I see with any labeled receptacles is that when the receptacle is placed upside down the label likewise is shown upside down. Do you know of any way to fix that? I've noticed that tags will "always" be upward facing such as when placing panel name tags. Thanks.

[jason.combs]

You can use the space bar to flip the orientation of the label to read correctly.

[JSchmidt.AllenShariff]

Also you can do this: http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=61746&highlight=Upside+down

[darin.marsden]

The mentioned thread doesn't allow for the GFCI label to be rotated as an always read. Any other ideas?

[jason.combs]

Darin,

This has to do with the Family Category. Some categories allow for an always "plan readable" orientation. Some don't.

Jason

[darin.marsden]

That's what I was afraid of.

Oh well, another well thought out plan by Autodesk for the benefit of us electrical folks.

[jbaumann]

It's sort of possible but takes an extra step. Can do it if you nest a detail component that happens to have a hatch - means you only have to make it once for each shape as well. You can then assign a visibility parameter to the component instead of trying to assign it to a hatch. Excellent suggestion...

It is very possible to control filled regions (hatch/poche for you classic AutoCAD users) without much difficulty.

The sample family attached is one Duplex Receptacle family that has a single nested Generic Annotation family in it. Multiple filled regions and symbols are controlled to represent the different mounting types, heights etc.

Linking the visibility parameter of each filled region or symbol from the nested family to visibility parameters in the host family gives you many options in a single family to manage.

[mwiggins]

Jarrod,
What do you do if they are stacked?

[jbaumann]

Jarrod,
What do you do if they are stacked?

This requires nesting to one more level and linking parameters through all (3) families. Clunky to quote Steve from an older post but definitely possible. Check out the example family I have updated.
You have just entered the 3D/2D twilight zone where one dimension's requirements don't fit the others. Most of the stock content will not truly work for this reason. The explanation that the 2D is just symbolic or schematic doesn't cut it because you have 3D "real" elements as well that can't just slide over a few inches so the symbol looks okay. That will create a very interesting series of RFI's asking if the contractor can put the gang boxes on the same stud even though they appear staggered on the elevation.
The answer to this little novel? Don't put the annotation in the family. Tag them with Tags. Create tags that report the information you need to show and tag them separately when you need to. A bit more work but much more flexible.
Now if Autodesk finds a way to make the nested annotation rotate as desired and allows us to move the annotation schematically (possible though clunky and not in the stock content) while properly positioning the "real" 3D element then great. It just isn't possible now.