View Full Version : Weld Symbols
tiffany.amorgan
2006-09-18, 02:28 PM
You've probably noticed that the weld symbols don't show up correctly in Revit when showing field weld or all around weld. (The horizontal bar goes all the way through the all around weld symbol.) Any ideas on how to fix this. I can get it close (in other words I figured out you can move these two symbols out further to fix the line problem.) but I'm really having trouble getting the leader to do what I want. (I can't get the leader to click to the center of the all around weld symbol, it just keeps jumping around the outside.)Any suggestions? I'm pretty new to family editing anyways so I could just be overlooking the obvious.
tiffany.amorgan
2006-09-18, 09:54 PM
So some have looked but none have responded to my question. After tinkering around with the weld symbol today I and a co-worker have decided we will implement this work around. Still open to any suggestions others might have though, after all we are still newbies to Revit Structure. We are going to take the weld symbol and make two weld symbols one for the right and one for the left. This will not allow us to us the toggle function. The editing process goes like this. Open the weld symbol.rfa file for editing. Click on Family type and turn on field weld and all around. Move the two symbols that appear so that the center of the all around weld is on the end of the horizontal line. Then click view properties or type "VP". Click Edit visibility, click annotations Tab and turn on the reference lines. Now move the vertical reference line and load the symbol into a drawing. This is the imprecise part as I just play with the vertical reference line until I can finally attach the leader to the center of the all around weld symbol. I haven't figured out to get this to work so that I can toggle the weld symbol from left to right so for now I guess this will do.
bgarrett
2006-09-18, 10:32 PM
Tiffany,
That is pretty much what I have done also, but I am sure they are folks on here that have a better or more efficient way to do it. It sometimes takes a day or two to get the right answer from the Revit masters, they have a few questions from me to answer about every week, but have always been very helpful.
Tom Weir
2006-09-19, 04:25 PM
Hi,
I was just about to start a thread on this subject. Weld Symbols, such a basic necessity for a structural program, and so poorly handled. This is the type of documentation limitation that really turns people off.
When the developers first showed me the all around symbol I told them it was incorrect, but they could not seem to fix it. It's still incorrect and unacceptable. Thanks for your work around.
In my case I cannot get the leader arrows to work correctly. They come in on the left side and when I move it to the right side it shows a gap. Is that just me?
Tom Weir
Los Angeles
tiffany.amorgan
2006-09-19, 09:34 PM
No, it's not just you. I know what your talking about thats why we had to make two separate symbols. I haven't figured out a way to fix the leader so that you can toggle back and forth from left to right in the properties box.
Paul Andersen
2006-09-20, 11:51 AM
Hello all, this has been on our to do list for quite some time as well. Tiffany's post reminded me to have another run at it and provided the inspiration for the solution (I'll explain more tomorrow) . . . thanks in advance Tiffany. I'll be out of town at a conference for the bulk of the day but should have time to put the finishing touches on it, work out any of the gremlins that remain and should be able to post it tomorrow for everyone to review. Have a good one!
Paul Andersen
2006-09-21, 02:42 PM
Well here we go. The attached weld symbol family has been modified to show the base of the leader in the correct location (if you zoom way in and toggle to thin line mode you will see it's not perfect . . . although that may just be a display glitch on my computer as strange things begin to happen if I zoom in ridiculously close). Best I can tell is that it's off by less than 1/256" in either direction if at all.
The method I used to get this to work was building the symbol symmetrically about the origin with regards to the distances between the field weld symbols. I then added a parameter (Origin Offset) which shifts the origin left or right of center and is triggered by the Symbol Left parameter.
The symbol functions as delivered with a few subtle changes. When it comes to placement the symbol will now come in centered on your cursor instead of attached to one end. Due to it's modified construction there is also a shift in the welds location when flipped with the Symbol Left toggle.
The only other modification I made was to remove the "0" place holders for the Top and Bottom Weld Size and Length. You can still edit these through the properties dialog of a given weld symbol or directly by selecting the weld symbol first and then editing the question marks which appear. The "0" placeholder is a pet peeve of mine in situations where this information does not need to be filled in and you then have to delete the "0" rather than just placing the symbol and moving on.
If the symbol is not working right for you try deleting the weld symbol in your test project and load this one in rather than simply loading this one over the top of the original. Let me know what you think.
FYI: The invisible line is at the original origin location and is used to locate the base of the leaders vertically.
tiffany.amorgan
2006-09-22, 10:00 PM
Thanks so much Paul!!!! My co-worker has gotten a chance to use the new weld symbol and is very pleased. We both would like to learn more about editing families. Well we apperciate your intelligence and generousity.!!
Paul Andersen
2006-09-22, 10:12 PM
Thank you for the kick in the right direction. Let me know if you find any glitches. I put it together rather quickly and haven't had a chance to fully test it.
Tom Weir
2006-09-25, 02:54 PM
Paul,
Many thanks. That is a definate improvement over what we have been using. I hope the factory is taking notice.
Tom
Steve Mintz
2006-09-25, 05:21 PM
This is amazing, Paul! I had given it a shot myself, but still couldn't get the leader to attach in the right place. How did you manage to do it? I couldn't see any reference plane or reference lines in the family for the leader to snap to.
Please tell me you're teaching a class at AU...
Paul Andersen
2006-09-25, 07:03 PM
How did you manage to do it? It's a bit of a hack really. The base of the leaders generally attach themselves to the intersection of the two origin planes unless there is linework involved outside of this. Building the symbol symmetrically about the y direction origin moves the base of the leaders along the x direction to the furthest extent of linework from the origin (in this case the furthest point is the outside quadrant point of the all around symbols on either side). The hack is a parameter that shifts the vertical origin reference plane the distance of the all around symbol's radius which locates the base of the leader at its center. The vertical invisible line is used to center the leaders vertical position. Perhaps not the most elegant solution but it seems to hold up for now.
A specialized reference plane or point that could be used to clearly define intended leader base locations might be a useful addition for these families. It would also be nice to place left or right leaders when these families are used in the project rather than always coming in on one side and then dragging them to the other.
Please tell me you're teaching a class at AU...
I'm not teaching any classes this year. This will be my first AU and I just wanted to see what it's all about. I'm looking forward to attending and meeting all of you. Hope to see you there.
jrichardson
2006-09-28, 03:22 AM
Thanks Paul,
I would also like to extend my thanks to you. We were just talking about this today in the office. I made comment that I didn't think that this would be an easy fix without the Factory's help. It was also on my list, like many others, to figure out a work around for. Not for sure if I would of went the route you went, but I like it. I think the team back at the office will like this news in the morning.
Look forward to meeting you at AU!
jamie
Paul Andersen
2006-09-28, 12:16 PM
Look forward to meeting you at AU!
I look forward to meeting you as well. Are you teaching a class this year? I thought I saw your name on one of the class descriptions but I can't remember which one.
jrichardson
2006-09-28, 01:40 PM
Yes, I will be giving a class on "Get Your Company Ready for AutodeskĀ® RevitĀ® Structure" I will discuss are approach to successfully implementing Revit in our office. From getting the approval to move forward, to our method of training/picking the team, and selecting/starting/completing projects.
jamie
bebrett
2007-01-16, 07:13 PM
Thanks for the weld update. I have been messing with the standard one off an on (and dreading it) for months. This one seems to work very well.
phil.156294
2008-02-25, 02:26 PM
I was hoping for a little help. I'm relatively new to Revit (2 months) and I really love it. I need to reduce the size of the weld symboly family to better fit with my sections and details. I want to make it 0.625 times the original size. Attached is a weld symbol family that I attempted to modify by this scale factor but I am having issues with the leader attachment and the location of the weld all around and the field flag.
I was hoping for some instght on how to make this work correctly. Also how does this family know to only visually show only one field flag or weld all around symbol depending on if it is either left or right facing since both show up in the family but not when placed in a detail.
I guess the best way to attempt to see what is going on with this new family is to try it in a detail view.
Thanks for any and all help so far and with this issue.
captjim
2008-02-26, 03:40 PM
Paul, Thanks so much for having a go at the weld symbol.
I've also tinkered with it and have come up with some additional improvements:
1. Move all the parameters that we normally have to interact with to the top of the Element Properties Instance Parameters window (e.g. we don't interact with the Origin Offset, it should be moved to the Other group with Symbol Right, and move Symbol Left which we do interact with to the Graphics group). There are already a lot of clicks to setting a weld symbol, having to scroll down is unnecessary.
2. Top Visibility and Bottom Visibility can both be set On, and moved to the Other Group, Top Symbol and Bottom Symbol can be set to Weld Symbol-Empty
3. It is obscenely HUGE. Engineers are quite capable of fixing that too much empty space condition all on their own.
4. Need staggered symbols, at least for fillet.
5. It's easier to align leader and make parts consistent size if you change the Project Units to Decimal inches and Rounding to 4 decimal places using Custom rounding.
6. "Symbol Left" would be better named "Leader Left" since the symbol is actually on the right and you set it wrong half the time because of the ambiguous name.
7. Tail note contents visibility should be driven by both Symbol Left/Right and Tail Note Visible parameters, and TYP should be its default since it is usually the first choice if a tail note is needed.
and some questions:
1. What element is the center vertical reference plane dimensioned to with the Origin Offset parameter?
2. How does the center vertical reference plane move when the Origin Offset parameter changes, rather than the element it is dimensioned from? If I start making a family from scratch, I cannot get it to do this.
3. I know the leader position is controlled by the Origin Offset parameter, but how does this happen? What exactly drives the leader start position?
I applaud your choice of blanking out the weld size and length placeholders, just so many more unnecessary clicks.
Great work, but really, shouldn't Autodesk be doing it?
Thanks,
Jim
Well here we go. The attached weld symbol family has been modified to show the base of the leader in the correct location (if you zoom way in and toggle to thin line mode you will see it's not perfect . . . although that may just be a display glitch on my computer as strange things begin to happen if I zoom in ridiculously close). Best I can tell is that it's off by less than 1/256" in either direction if at all.
The method I used to get this to work was building the symbol symmetrically about the origin with regards to the distances between the field weld symbols. I then added a parameter (Origin Offset) which shifts the origin left or right of center and is triggered by the Symbol Left parameter.
The symbol functions as delivered with a few subtle changes. When it comes to placement the symbol will now come in centered on your cursor instead of attached to one end. Due to it's modified construction there is also a shift in the welds location when flipped with the Symbol Left toggle.
The only other modification I made was to remove the "0" place holders for the Top and Bottom Weld Size and Length. You can still edit these through the properties dialog of a given weld symbol or directly by selecting the weld symbol first and then editing the question marks which appear. The "0" placeholder is a pet peeve of mine in situations where this information does not need to be filled in and you then have to delete the "0" rather than just placing the symbol and moving on.
If the symbol is not working right for you try deleting the weld symbol in your test project and load this one in rather than simply loading this one over the top of the original. Let me know what you think.
FYI: The invisible line is at the original origin location and is used to locate the base of the leaders vertically.
mmcfadden
2008-04-01, 05:31 PM
thanks for the improved weld symbol.
i tried using it and when i toggled the dimension to to the right instead of the default left position i noticed that the leader doesnt flip with the rest of the symbol.
i open the family and i dont see a leader. how can i fix the symbol so that the leader flips with the rest of the weld?
thanks again..
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