Average Illumination Field not working

[james.lacey]

Hi

I am working my way through the lighting tutorials for Systems and I am having trouble getting the 'Average Illumination' field working as documented. It appears to be working on the tutorial files, but if I move a light fitting, the Average Illumination for the room gets set back to zero and I cannot seem to get it to change (no matter how many lights I add). I have checked the calculation plane, I have checked that the light fittings are facing the right way, and I have the 'calculate totals' box checked under the field properties -> formatting tab.

Has anyone been able to get this tutorial or field to work correctly? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

James

[jason.combs]

We had a similar problem here with the tutorial. The key was to spell the calculation formulas EXACTLY how the parameters are spelled. Check for upper-case, lower-case, and plurals.

ie

Average Estimated Illumination - Required Lighting Level(s)

I think there is a missing "s" in the tutorial.

[Mottiqua]

Hi, I just went through the entire electrical tutorial as well...there are a few things that were a little screwy, that was one of them, everything is case sensitive. One of the things I noticed as well is that if you use Systems 2.0, the tutorials in that version are from 1.0, and will be upgraded to 2.0 when you open them. This creates a conflict, that I believe is one of the 'bugs' in 2.0, not completely compatible. For example, GFI outlets were not coming in right on the tutorial. I could place them on a floor, but not on a wall....it's like it wasn't recognizing the wall. But when I created a brand new file in systems, then it worked.

[james.lacey]

Thanks for your replies Diana and Jason.

I went back and checked that my cases were correct and I do not believe that this is the casue of the problem. It appears to me that the 'Average Estimated Illumination' (which is a Room property) is not functioning correctly. Try the following:

1. Open up the i_Creating Lighting Circuitry and Wires.rvt tutorial file
2. Open up the Room Lighting Analysis schedule
3. See that only the mechanical rooms have a Lighting Delta greater than 10
4. Open up the level 1 lighting plan
5. Select any light fitting on the plan and hit the left (or right) cursor once to move the fitting slightly
-note: This should not change the Average Estimated Illumination for the room
6. Open up the Lighting Analysis Schedule again
7. Note that the room containing the moved light fitting now has an Average Estimated Illumination of 0fc (and therefore a lighting delta of greater than 10)

All other attempts to get any value other than 0 in the Average Estimated Illumination field have produced the same result. It just doesn't seem to calculate

Should I be getting the Average Estimated Illumination to somehow recalculate itself? Not sure.

If anyone has had any success using this field I would be very happy to hear.

Cheers

James

[mmodernc]

Is this stuff available in Revit Building? I am doing an artificial lighting simulation at an accident site using a Revit model.
re above can you set something like disjoin when you move the light?

[jeffsr]

I am having the exact same problem. I am on my third try right now and STILL can't get it to calculate.

I created my room Lighting Analysis, all the while being VERY careful about my cases. It looks fine....all the fields are there and the 'Lighting Delta' column is red.

I tile the screen so I can see both the Lighting Analysis and my ceiling plan. I place the light fixtures and nothing happens in the Lighting Analysis for that particular room.

Getting pretty frustrated. I tried putting light fixtures in every room and none of the Fields calculate. I tried using different light fixtures with different IES files and still nothing.

I checked an East elevation to see if the light was being placed on the ground or something and it looks like it is being attached at the height of the host ceiling grid.

I was hoping this function would work. I suppose I could go back to Visual and do it the old way, but isn't that defeating the purpose of this new software?

How did you check to see if your light was facing the correct way? I doubt that that is it but I don't know what else to try.

TGIF anyway...

[Avatart]

Has anyone actually got this to work? I am running through the tutorials now, with the same effect as described above, in Revit 2008.

Does this effect leak over into other projects? Or is it a quirk of the tutorial?

Be very interested to hear where people are at now.

thanks

[sschwartz]

Has anyone actually got this to work? I am running through the tutorials now, with the same effect as described above, in Revit 2008.

Does this effect leak over into other projects? Or is it a quirk of the tutorial?

Be very interested to hear where people are at now.

thanks

It worked fine for me. As long as I right click on the room itself and assign a type. (best guess as to what that technical terminology is). I know it takes like 2 schedules and assigning the room a type....

Oh, and by the way, the room average WILL calculate whether or not it is on the floor. :P (always good to check anyways)

I even made my own schedule formatted to fit your tv. Or, the MDCH michigan department of something or other = healthcare construction minimum requirements. 1998. Haven't made the latest yet.

[kyle.bernhardt]

I'm going to venture a guess here, but I'm not sure if it's the solution.

I think what might be happening is that the Room is not detecting the lights inside of its boundaries. Try increasing the Room Upper Limit and see if the AEI calculates. I suspect the Upper Limit is at the same elevation as the Lights, and the app is getting confused somehow.

I'm going to check that tutorial file.

Kyle B

[kyle.bernhardt]

Okay, that doesn't seem to be the case, everything worked as expected on my machine. Here's what I think is going on in your machine. I believe that the link between the Light Fixture and the IES data file has been broken. With no IES data, Revit MEP can't calculate lighting levels.


When you initially load the dataset, the Lighting levels are retained from the last time the lighting levels were calculated. Loading the file does not cause a regen.


When you nudge the light in any direction, it causes Revit to recalculate the lighting in the room. If the link is broken, then there's no data for Revit to use to recalculate the lighting levels. If there was, then you'd see the same value.
Here's what you need to do to to fix this:


Verify the link is maintained between the "Troffer Corner Insert" family and the IES Data file that it references. For info on how to check that, check out a previous post (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=65043) from me on that topic. Find it here (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=65043).


If the link is broken, you need to either modify the "IESFileLocation" path in your Revit.ini file, or the reference in the Family definition.That's should get this all working.

:beer:
Kyle B

[Avatart]

There is no "IESFileLocation" in my Revit.ini file, also, I cannot find any files with a .ies extension from the install of MEP.

As a bit of a Revit MEP newbie, can you advise me on how I would reference in data to a family definition? There is already data in the Family Types dialogue, is there anything else the family needs to calculate the lighting levels?

[sschwartz]

There is no "IESFileLocation" in my Revit.ini file, also, I cannot find any files with a .ies extension from the install of MEP.

As a bit of a Revit MEP newbie, can you advise me on how I would reference in data to a family definition? There is already data in the Family Types dialogue, is there anything else the family needs to calculate the lighting levels?

My location is:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Autodesk\RME 2008\IES

On the revit ini file, it was the 10th listing (IESFileLocation=)

Hope that helps? Can't answer any of the other questions just yet. :P

[kyle.bernhardt]

There is no "IESFileLocation" in my Revit.ini file, also, I cannot find any files with a .ies extension from the install of MEP.

Sounds like you didn't install everything. The easiest solution here is to reinstall the application. Find the latest build here. Make sure to choose to include all content in the Installation.


As a bit of a Revit MEP newbie, can you advise me on how I would reference in data to a family definition?

I explained that in the thread (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=65043) I referenced in my last post. You configure the Revit.ini file to point in a certain location -> you make sure the IES file exists in that location -> you reference that information into the Family Definition.


There is already data in the Family Types dialogue, is there anything else the family needs to calculate the lighting levels?

Nope, as long as the light exists inside the Room's boundaries. I recommend that you do some searches on the forums, as much of this has been discussed previously.

Hope that Helps,
Kyle B

[Avatart]

Sounds like you didn't install everything. The easiest solution here is to reinstall the application. Find the latest build here. Make sure to choose to include all content in the Installation.
We have had some real problems installing MEP, I'm on my fifth install already, I don't think there is anything wrong product-wise, I just think our IT guys don't actually know what they are doing. :(

I explained that in the thread (http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=65043) I referenced in my last post. You configure the Revit.ini file to point in a certain location -> you make sure the IES file exists in that location -> you reference that information into the Family Definition.
That wasn't quite what I was trying to ask, once the .ini is pointing at a location, how does one reference that into the Family Definition?

Nope, as long as the light exists inside the Room's boundaries. I recommend that you do some searches on the forums, as much of this has been discussed previously.
Light inside room boundary - check
Move or add fitting, calculation fails. :(
I did run a search over this forum (and others :Oops:), this thread seemed most pertinent.

[kyle.bernhardt]

That wasn't quite what I was trying to ask, once the .ini is pointing at a location, how does one reference that into the Family Definition?

There is a Family Parameter, where you fill in the name of the IES data file. That establishes the link.


Move or add fitting, calculation fails. :(


That's only when the link between the light and the IES data file is broken. Not usually. :)

Cheers,
Kyle B

[Joshua.Benoist]

We have noticed that to solve this issue, we need to address two issues. As Kyle pointed out, the family needs to be edited to point to the right IES file. It must be spelled correctly. Then that IES file must exist in the IES folder. If one person downloaded the IES files off the web into their IES folder, your teammates may not have done the same. If you ask someone else to help troubleshoot why it's not working, and they don't have the IES file they can't solve the issue because this is just one link in the chain.

Now that we have verified that the family has the correct IES file name and the IES folder contains the referenced IES file, verify the path is correct in the Revit.ini file as Kyle mentioned. Update the family in the project with any changes. The electrical connector on the family must be inside the boundary of the room including the upper limits. Often we believe they are within the limits and can be easily fooled. To verify without a doubt, create a section thru the room. Set the section view properties so that Rooms are visible in the section. In the Windows menu, tile the plan and section view so that you can see both side by side. In the plan view, select on the room. You will see the room boundary turn Blue in the section view. Your light connectors must be within this boundary. If you then moved your lights into the boundary, you do not need this next step. We need to move or jiggle the lights to get the room parameters to update with the refreshed IES data on the family connector. Go back into the Plan view, select on the lights and use the keyboard left arrow to move the light left, then use the right keyboard arrow to move the light back into place. This move action refreshes the data on the Room itself. If you look at the room properties, they should have updated and the Average Illumination should be non-zero.

Most of these procedures have been mentioned and attempted in earlier posts, but they must all be done in the sequence above to update the Room Parameters.

[Avatart]

There is a Family Parameter, where you fill in the name of the IES data file. That establishes the link.


We have noticed that to solve this issue......

Most of these procedures have been mentioned and attempted in earlier posts, but they must all be done in the sequence above to update the Room Parameters.
Kyle/Joshua, thanks for all your help on this, it really is appreciated. :beer:

I have noticed that the tutorials I have contain no IES data, is there a place I can go to download this? I can't interrogate the install DVD, as my MEP is installed from a network image to which I have no access.

Also, do I need the full version of IES to address the IES files, or does the "IES lite" in Revit suffice?

Thanks again,

Carl

[Joshua.Benoist]

Don't confuse IES VE with the IES Lighting Illumination file.
IES VE is a 3rd party HVAC load analysis program for Mechanical Engineers.

An IES Lighting Illumination file typically comes from a manufacturer and stores lighting characteristics data about specific light fixtures. It is primarily used by Electrical Engineers and occasionally Architects. It is a file type standard. There is also an IES Electrical Society like AIA is to Architects. We do not have a 3rd party built-in analysis software for the IES Lighting file. Our software performs some calculations that require this IES Lighting file.

I suppose my point here is not to confuse the IES VE HVAC Load Analysis program with the IES file type for Electrical Engineers.

[Avatart]

Don't confuse IES VE with the IES Lighting Illumination file.
IES VE is a 3rd party HVAC load analysis program for Mechanical Engineers.
OK, thanks for that clarification, showing my inexperience in Revit and lighting stuff in general there. :Oops:

The point remains though, that the IES files for the tutorials are not present on my install of MEP, I don't know if this is a common problem, but would account for why the calculations fail.