[Request for Feedback] Electrical Content

[kyle.bernhardt]

Revit MEP Community,
I wanted to open a discussion regarding a topic that impacts all users, Content. I recognize that we do not have a "complete" catalog of content available with the program today (although I don't think we could ever provide enough content), and we certainly realize that there's a critical need to deliver more content. In this case, I'm talking Electrical components.

So, I want to open it up to all of you to let us in the Product Team know what content you need to properly create your electrical systems. I'm looking for specific devices, lighting fixtures, and electrical equipment and the standard they are based upon. You can go into as much or as little detail as you'd like. An explanation of why specific content will help you accomplish your jobs better will make your recommendation all the more useful.

I expect that some of you may want to vent about Electrical Content in general, that's okay by me, just try and throw in some content requests while your at it :-)

I can thank you all in advance for any time you put into this request, as it will help us better shape the decisions we make for content creation. Many of us here certainly know what needs to be there, but this is an opportunity for your voice to be heard, and it's something I think we need to do more of as the product develops further.

Cheers,
Kyle B

Standard Disclaimer: I cannot guarantee that any/all recommendations will actually be produced, nor can I make any statements of when you would see such content.

[mjdanowski]

Well for me, its not so much what physical content is currently available by default, rather what content is able to be made effectively. I will list my rants in numerical order, but they are not ranked in any particular order.

1. Transfer Switches: Part type ahoy! The ability to have two inputs into the same device, and then one output. This is easy to get around with current implementation, but is kind of annoying with its interface. If you could have two inputs and be able to "switch" the load between them that would be awesome for seeing a load on a generator, while at the same time not making it a pain to see the load on normal. A cool tool bar layout with two distinguishable "Select Panel" buttons would also make my life a lot easier. Connecting two inputs to a family right now is confusing at best. A more defined way of doing this would be awesome.

2. Power Sources: Part type ahoy! Essentially, a circuit which has things connected to it, but isn't itself connected to anything. Examples of this would be a generator, a incoming service line and/or UPS system which we would need to see the power load on for analysis, and which itself wouldn't be connected to anything on the line side. (as far as Revit is concerned)

3. Motor Starters/Switches: Though I know you have families for these already, they don't have much of a functionality. What would be awesome is if motor starters/switches could be "hosted" upon mechanical equipment and take information from them. For example: I have a motor disconnect/starter schedule. However, not all mechanical equipment has one so putting shared project parameters on all mechanical equipment can get kind of messy. One solution I have thought of is just putting shared parameters into the families of motor starters for the fields I need. However when I do this, there is no link to the mechanical equipment it serves. One big thing with MEP is the mechanical people are always changing horsepowers and load information on their equipment if there could be some sort of link between the two families that would be quite the awesome feature.
Pretty much another part type is what would be needed here, with increased functionality.

4. Duct Bank/Wireway/ Cable Tray: Pretty self explanatory, this is something that would be awesome to have. Acting essentially like a duct and/or pipe.

5. Read previous post on annotation woes: http://forums.augi.com/showthread.php?t=61505

6. More Load classifications, or even better custom load classifications so my panelboard schedules aren't so silly.

What I think you were getting at here is are pre-made family type deals that are default with the project. These suggestions kind of hint at these things, but keep in mind some of the functionality for new releases :)

[Mottiqua]

Hi Kyle,
Here's a starter list for me....

Conduit and Busduct...and analysis tools to go along with them

Under the side panel...Add 'Fire Alarm', 'Security', and 'Telecom' to go along with "Electrical Equipment", "Devices", and "Light Fixtures"

Add an option for feed thru lugs, perhaps a parameter of sorts....Right now you cannot have feed thru lugs without adding a circuit breaker.

Add equipment/capabilities for a Service Entrance for Electrical Services (logically tied into Busduct and Conduit i suppose)

Addequipment/capabilities for power sources/generation. For example, generators and sustainable sources like photovoltaics, windmill energy, hydro....etc.

More Load classifications. Right now we are limited to "Power", "Lighting", "HVAC", and "Other". At my company, we currently break them down to Lighting, Receptacles, Power, Kitchen, HVAC, A/C, and Power Equipment. It would be nice to see it be user defined, different jurisdictions have different requirements for the connected loads.

With the load classifications, a power diversity factor would be beneficial...You can diversify through the electrical settings, but that appears to be for wiring

Automated riser/single line diagrams. We have to draw the riser diagrams in a drafting view in revit. Single Line diagrams still have to be done in Microstation/Autocad. An automated process of this would be time saving and hugely beneficial. This is one huge area of Revit Systems that is not 'BIM'ified.

Lighting Controls. We'd like to be able to apply relay panels to the lights, and then have the panel feed the relay panel. Perhaps teaming up with a manufacturer like Wattstopper would be helpful.

[sean.127209]

...well, I'm not really sure how to even begin... I guess I can start by saying thanks for inquiring. It's obvious to anyone who has "attempted" to use Revit MEP that content is in serious need of help.

I feel that one of the major components that needs work are the lighting fixtures. Where are the wall mounted fixtures? Downlights? Emergency lighting fixtures and exit signs? How about fixtures with more than one ballast?

There's no need for me to repeat those items already stated in previous posts...I agree with their suggestions.

I know I shouldn't compare Revit with another program because it's like comparing apples and oranges; however, when it comes to content, I wish Revit MEP had what AutoCAD MEP has.

[dmb.100468]

I agree with all of the above, especially Load Classifications. I know that is not necessarily content, but we really need to diversify our loads.

I would also like to emphasize the need for feed-thru lug panels.

For light fixtures I'd like to see some indirect and direct/indirect fixtures

I'll sneek this one in too, PLEASE give us more control over customizing the panel schedules. As we operate now, I can get 17 schedules on one sheet. With RMEP I can only fit 4. (after squeezing them down as much as possible)

Oh, and SPARES and SPACES in panels!!! Our engineers are considering not using the RMEP panels which would defeat the whole purpose of having a "model". They don't want to deal with the workaround of creating, and more importantly managing "dummy" loads just to account for spaces and spares in panels.

[ahefner]

What an awesome thread topic!!!! I know you've inquired about content specifically, but hopefully you won't get too mad if we add a few "would be nice to haves" and "must haves"... along the way.

First, I want to congratulate you and the entire team for getting this far. I know you've been killing yourselves on the MEP side trying to get a functional product online and out to the customers while also trying to catch up with Building/Architecture and Structural after starting way behind. Just know you're changing lives and the future of MEP design!!! Y'll are doing a great job.

I would like to second the motion for RISER DIAGRAMS (ONE-LINE DIAGRAM ELEVATIONS)

LOW VOLTAGE TRANSFORMERS (12V / 120V-277V, 24V / 120V-277V, Custom V / V)

FLOOR HOSTED LIGHTING (recessed floor lights at columns are very common for us among other applications)

CUSTOMIZE PANEL SCHEDULE (I'm sure y'll hear this one every day) if this can't be done do to hard programming issues, then the next one would be nice.

CUSTOMIZABLE "Custom Schedules" (if that makes sense at all)... when you create a custom schedule, you're limited to what information you can bring into that schedule based off the "category" you first selected. If you need 15 parameters in your schedule and the category you selected only contains 12 of them, you have to create a new schedule to get the other 3. Of course you can always add a "Shared Parameter", but what's the point of adding a parameter for a schedule that's already there, you just can't access it.

Thanks for giving me a chance to speak out. I hope we've been helpful.

[aaron.brandt]

Maybe it would be helpful to give some company resources I use often. For electrical equipment info and purchasing I often use the following companies.

General electrical equipment: Square D and GE
Lighting: Lithonia, Gardco, Valmont, Canplas

Also, I use UPS systems (Uninterpretable Power Supply) quite often. A UPS system will contain some if not all the following Switchgear, substation, batteries, Generator.

Hope this is helpful.
Aaron

[Mottiqua]

One extra thing I'd like to add to my list....
Being able to maintain annotations for Electrical Equipment and Lighting Fixtures...
tsk tsk, ya'll left that out in the family parameters for those categories..... :)

[brendan.upton]

Automated riser/single line diagrams. We have to draw the riser diagrams in a drafting view in revit. Single Line diagrams still have to be done in Microstation/Autocad. An automated process of this would be time saving and hugely beneficial. This is one huge area of Revit Systems that is not 'BIM'ified.

We would also love to see the above: Some kind of Single line diagram process inside Revit would be tops!!
We have currently been brainstorming as to how we might achieve an SLD at the moment and yes, doing it in AutoCAD and linking it back into a Revit sheet seems the most likely.

Cheers,
Bren.

[kyle.bernhardt]

I want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. While it evolved into mostly Feature Requests, it is nonetheless quite useful for us in determining Electrical Content requirements, as well as some feature prioritization. Use the Wish Lists though in the future please for Electrical Feature Requests. I can assure you that we read those.

Kyle B

[ahefner]

I'm wondering if it would be quicker to take a picture of our book shelvES filled with electrical catalogs? I mean, there are just too many manufacturers and model numbers to give you a list here (like a list of the equipment we typically use which is countless). Maybe a picture of the manufacturers' catalogs would give you a simple list of the manufacturers you might want to look at or ask to build families.

One thing WE'D love to see is some sort of integration with COMcheck (IECC) as we have to spend a lot of time (at least in AutoCAD) calculating and counting, which might be a breeze in a Revit environment.

[Mottiqua]

One thing WE'D love to see is some sort of integration with COMcheck (IECC) as we have to spend a lot of time (at least in AutoCAD) calculating and counting, which might be a breeze in a Revit environment.

You can already do that now with scheduling (which is one of the most awesome features in revit, you can make a schedule for just about anything). I have a schedule set up with all my required power density for each room, and my actual power density, and if I'm off by so much, it will highlight it and flag it. I have each room tagged as a type and the rest is done for me. Takes some initial setup, but once you have it, you can save it as part of your template.

The IES<VE> can also then take your info into consideration when it's doing it's calcs.

[ahefner]

True, but I have to print out my IECC sheets and then link them (after they've been wet signed) to a sheet. It'd be nice to not have to open COMcheck as a separate program, but instead have it incorporated into Revit.

[tovan2000]

OK, I hate to admit it, but I am new in 2009 to REVIT. I am very glad to see that there is a forum set up for feed-back/requests. I am still too new to understand some of the more recent schedule threads, but non-the less I will continue to catch up.

NEW REQUEST: Can someone direct me to where additional fire alarm devices may exist? Fire alarm strobes, fire alarm speakers, fire alarm duct smoke detectors, fire alarm tamper switches, fire alarm flow switches. etc.?

I can see the how REVIT is "productive" in a different way then Autocad, but we would like to be able to coordinate these devices with wall switches, and other surfaces which may conflict with the device installation(s), such as glass.

I will continue my search for manufacturers and others which have developed these families, but as an introduction, I would love to hear what has been developed here.

Tom (REVIT newbie)

[james.klatt]

I couldn't find any decent fire alarm devices out there. I just created my own. They are strictly graphical though, no intelligence and might not be everything you need. However, may be a good starting point. All I ask is if you come up with something better or create a device that I didn't post, please share the wealth.

Thanks

[tovan2000]

James, thanks for the starting point!!!! I(we) need to research and see how much we are will to spend on development, but I will deffinately share whatever I come up with. I believe one good turn always deserves another!!! I will also be hounding the local reps to see what development they have come up with. But with all the recent fire alarm company purchases, I am not too optomistic.....

Thanks again for the help and I will keep all up to date as progress is made. I may add intelegence to the devices once I know how to do it....

Tom

[james.klatt]

Yah we don't do much fire alarm in house the projects we've worked on we did FA in CAD however clients seem to want to see the devices in 3D for the wow factor, thus the dumb families. Good luck!