Why does grading not always work?

[jtgb]

We have two systems running C3D 08 SP1. On my system , I can create grading only half the time. If I create a feature line and try grading to a surface, it generally, but not always, locks up at 0- 20%. If I try running the exact same thing (same drawing) on the other computer, it works every time, albeit a lot slower (due to a slower processor). Both systems are running clean installs with the latest service packs. Is there possibly an issue with dual core systems, as this is the only difference between the two computer - one is dual core with two processors, the other (mine) is dual core but running only one high end processor??

I have read the latest "Grading Best Practices" White Paper and follow the recommendations. It just amazes me that it will work on one system and not the other, while everything else seems to work identically.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

GB

[brian.hailey933139]

GB,

I honestly don't know why it would work on one computer and not the other. If you are on subscription, I would recomend logging this with Autodesk Tech Support.

[jtgb]

Thanks for the reply Brian - it's been logged ... many, many, many, many times :)

[brian.hailey933139]

Logging it with Autodesk Tech Support is not the same as submitting a Customer Error Report (CER). The CER is the thing that pops up when C3D crashes.

To log this with tech support, go the subscription website and create a case for this specific problem. Being a reseller, I have a different route for submitting tech support cases but I'm sure someone here can direct you in the right way to do it if you don't know how.

[jtgb]

oh ok - thanks. sorry for the misunderstanding.

[randyc]

I would like to camp on to this thread, as I have also suffered from the "grading to surface lock-up" woes :roll:, but I am on 2007 not 2008 (and not really comforted by the thought that the program is still buggy in 2008 :(). If anyone out there has ever found a solution that doesn't involve Autodesk tech support please let me know (you don't even want to know the red tape I have to go through to get to Autodesk tech support where I work...).:banghead:

[brian.hailey933139]

AutoCAD Civil 3D 2008 SP2 has fixed a lot of the problems with the grading tools. Not all of them but a lot of them. Also check out the Grading Best Practices white paper on the Civil 3D website (www.autodesk.com/civil3d). It's found under documents.

[randyc]

Do you happen to know if they ever created a White Paper for C3D 2007 specifically? I couldn't find one through my search on Autodesk's site.

It'll be a moot point in about 3 or 4 months for me when we upgrade to 2008, but I am working on a grading project now so any help I can find to try and stop these very annoying freezes and crashes would be great.;)

[brian.hailey933139]

Not that I'm aware of. The 2008 white paper still has a lot of good info regarding the background calculations and why the grading sometimes fails.

[randyc]

Yes, it's a very informative read, that's why I wish they had done one for 2007, but I digress :roll:. Thanks for the information :p.

[rjairath]

i came on here with the same issue my gardding gets stuck at 0-20% and it keep crashing with no recovery either it will just crash (fatal error) or hang up.

my work day has been very unproductive all day thursday

so i come in friday and i try again i make it to 44% and bam crash and now i try agaign won't make it to 20%

i created a new file from scratch same issue but i am still have to use the provided contour data.

so is there no fixes or patches thing i could go look for, i need to get this project done but i can't even get it to grade any body have any work arounds i can try. please help i need to produce results soon

[brian.hailey933139]

You can try to change your data. I had a client send me a file that was crashing while grading. I recreated the data with sparser data points and then filleted the feature line and it then worked just fine. Filleting a feature line really seems to fix a lot of the problems, or at least some of them.

[randyc]

I feel your pain (it seems we had the exact same Thursday, so identical it's almost scary, I can't tell you about today yet, I just got in but expecting more of this :banghead:). I can tell you I restarted C3D 2007 not less than 26 times in one hour last night and I am running SP3, which was supposed to have fixed most of these bugs.

Some work arounds that I have used with limited success are: adjusting the elevations on points of my feature lines where I feel I may be having some sort of surface conflict (sometimes as little as .001 of a unit up or down works), the conflicts are usually where my feature lines touch the surface at two or more points (i.e., trying to tie my grading object into an existing surface feature like a sidewalk, etc.), but this is not always the case and sometimes I can't even find any apparent conflicts; adjusting my slope/grade (some times I cannot get the design slope I want, so I go with the nearest I can (again, adjusting only the smallest degree of a grade % or run slope will work); waiting to create the dynamic surface from the grading object last sometimes helps too.

Other than that, crossing my fingers, toes, and anything else I can (it doesn't help though).

I apologize ahead of time if these do not work for you. At least you can take solace if the fact that you are most definitely not alone in your frustration.:roll:

[randyc]

Brian, when you fillet your feature lines, how small do you make your radii?

[rjairath]

well i using contour data and shunk it down to jsut area i am working on
and still having no luck and doing relative grading have to excavate site to put in dam did it on wednesday and now i can't do it, only difference first time excavate at 2:1 slope (default) and did not notice the error till cross section so now i am trying to fix it to corect value of 2.5:1 and simplyfied my feature line as much as i could it still has few sharp points and even just the elevation using surface elevation tool.
it been 2.5 hrs into project an di have nothing to show for it
at this rate i am going to lose my job, and i am supposed to be teh civil guy and i can't grade the site

why autocad are you not responding??

this issue is not the fact it is not working but i can't explain to my boss why is it not working i just need a why

[rjairath]

well i throughly went and checked the contour data and even shrunk it more
i specified relative gardinga nd left all default values it did it then i clicked on grading editor and specified only change in slope to 2.5 and fatal error, if i post my file up her does anyone wnat to try this on their machine

[randyc]

Again you are not alone. The project I am working on should have been completed days ago. I have multiple pads to grade on one site, all of which have to tie into existing surface features. I have been working on this for over a month (not consecetively though, this is only one of three projects I am managing right now) and I am still on my first pad. I have changed the geometry of my feature line so many times I don't even remeber how I orginally designed it. I even hired a second survey crew to go out and verify grade & elevations. Nothing has worked sucessfully. What's worse is it seems like every time I do have a sucess, it is invaribly due to a mistake, which immediately causes a crash when I try to fix it :banghead:.

My bosses are constantly asking for updates and results, which I have had very few. Time is running out and I am still trying to get just one concept to just work...

Hope we both get results, soon. Hang in there...

[rjairath]

well i made little progress during lunch and now i am the final area but still processing i think it hung up again but i figure maybe i should wait it out ..

the same garding that wouldn't work all morning worked in teh afternoon

why? i dunno know.
i did not do anything different

[randyc]

I am glad to hear you have made some progress :mrgreen:. Remember to save and save often, even saveing different revisions, that way if something goes wrong during the process you can always go back a step.

:beer:

[rjairath]

yeah i have like 8 different stage drawings so if they ask me to make changes i will just edit the grading using the grading editor

but what i still don't know is why did it work

oh things i changed before sucess, i deleted all the temp files
C:\Documents and Settings\user\Local Settings\Temp

all the files in there *.tmp and *.ac$ and *.0001 files
they are all created by civil
i typed "status" in civil 3d and found i only have 700mb available ram and 0mb in swap file, i don't know if it is 0 because of running files from network.

type status in ur C3D and post results

[randyc]

Something you said gave me a partial solution to my woes. When you mentioned working over your network I had a thought and saved by drawing locally to my workstation. This helped out considerably as I am crashing less (note: I said "less", which means I am still crashing, but less now than before). My guess is that working over the network requires more resources and/or is causing some sort of a data delay as information is being read/written over the servers (which is serving hundreds of other users at the same time). I don't know if my theory is valid and even if it is, how to bypass it right now (saving locally is all well and fine, but it requires me to be sure to park the file on the server every night, otherwise my files don't get backed up and are not available to other users :roll:). This will become a moot point in about 3 or 4 months when we upgrade to gigabit network, but I will have to find a solution right now.

[brian.hailey933139]

Brian, when you fillet your feature lines, how small do you make your radii?

It really depends on the data and the design. I usually try to make the radius greater then the grading length, if possible. This way, there are no serious interior corners to clean up.

[NickB]

I have found that keeping the drawing on a local drive does work better than across the network, so we have started using the Vault which can be set to store checked out drawings locally to work with and then back to the server when checked in.
As far as the grading problem I found that it sometimes takes quite a while to run thru. I was grading a 400 acre parcel for a borrow site it appeared to be hanging up so I let it run when I left the office and it finished 2 1/2 hours later. I don't know if this applies to your situation but if it appears to be hung up try just letting it run.

[randyc]

Thanks for the reply Brian.

Nick, thanks for the info as it seems to validate some of my theory. I wish we could use Vault, as it seems to automate the process I am already doing, but it is not a logistical acheivement right now for our I.S. department (but I am hopeful that Autodesk will continue to simplify Vault, as it seems to be doing w/ 2008, so that we will eventually be able to use it).

As for my freezes being just a lag, I am just grading a very small pad (only about 25' x 30') so I don't know if this is the issue. Also, it does work some of the time, usually when I am doing a rough grading. It's only when I go back and tighten up some elevations or adjust my slopes (you know, finish my design) that I seem to get these issues.

[randyc]

I just found this Autodesk Knowledge Base Article on Improving Civil 3D Performance which further validates my theory:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/item?siteID=123112&id=6043619&linkID=9240697

One of the listed solutions is to copy your project drawing to a local hard drive. There are several other solutions to try as well. Hope this helps anyone else looking for help ;).

[rjairath]

anyone willing to try my file on their computer for grading i want to know if its my machine failing or my grading failing

[rjairath]

Hey when you guys are grading do you see your PF usage increase
Because when I type status in AutoCAD or look at task manager the physical memory available listed is still more than half or just about half like 1152MB available out of 2054MB

Which so much memory available how come I can't make it past 11%?
And is using 2008 C3D much better than using 2007 C3D

What I don’t understand after much difficulty I created the excavation site of the dam. On Monday after the review they wanted to increase the north side footprint by 5m no problem I will just offset the feature line and grade again and now it won't perform instead it will keep crashing.


anybody else doing grading at this level and autodesk has been no help so far there has to be companies that constantly use C3D for grading, what do you do to meet your require work load what kind of time frames do u set out for excavating 625,000.00 cu m of dirt (that is how much i am removing) and now it will incrase since the north footprint is offset another 5m

[jpaulsen]

Randy (I assume that's your name),

I'l take a look at your drawing. I'm using 2008 SP2.

Give me some instructions for the specific steps you want me to test.

[rjairath]

Randy (I assume that's your name),

I'l take a look at your drawing. I'm using 2008 SP2.

Give me some instructions for the specific steps you want me to test.
hey was that directed to me "rjairath" or "randyc"

if it is directed to me please send me your email address (via post or PM) i will zip the drawing down currently it is 30mb it will be contour surface(base) and a feature line representing the depth (ditch) of excavated dirt, the infill command works to remove all the bulk of the dirt but when I go and perfom the grading to the outside perimeter to grade to surface with slope of 1:1 I get to 7% and ... crash

well that is it either fatal error or just sits there forever.

[jpaulsen]

That was directed at you "rjairath". I just looked at the wrong member name when I replied. I would not assume that your name is Randy. I'll PM you with my FTP address.

[rjairath]

have fun with my grading and post uyp the result here as well so other may also get something out of it sorry for the big file

[rjairath]

however that is average size my other sites are 70-80mb

[jpaulsen]

I looked at your drawing and I can't get it to grade either. I am using C3D 2008 SP2 on a HP 8710w mobile workstation with a Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 and 2GB Ram. I don't think this problem is due to your system. However, if your system does not meet minimum requirements I would still recommend upgrading. It may not fix issues like these but you will get your work done faster.

As far as the drawing goes I tried several things but could not get it to grade the entire feature line. I tried creating a new surface to project to. I tried weeding the feature line. Still crashed.

I also tried creating the grading for portions of the feature line. I thought I was on to something here. I was able to create grading up to about station 0+200. When I tried to go from 0+198.37 to 0+212.18 it crashed. I figured I had found the problem. I deleted 4 PVIs from 0+198.37 to 0+212.18 hoping that would fix it but it didn't.

Well I can't spend anymore time on this. It appears to be a program/data issue not hardware.

*EDIT* I did want to mention that the data in the drawing seemed very dense. It appears you could accomplish the same thing with many less points in your surface and your feature line.

[rjairath]

thank you for looking into my drawing. i am not entirely sure how do reduce the dense-ness of my surface. the feature line i can reduce and i even tried with as few points as possible on the featur eline and still no luck.

However what i don't understand is how did i manage to grade it the first time.