My House?

[adegnan]

So here's what I've been up to for the last 4 years or so, on and off. My first version on Revit actually started on 7/3/02 but I did a lot of sketching and thinking for a couple of years before that. No pretty renderings or anything, but some shaded edge elevations for you anyway.

We have 1.5 acres with 360 feet of "river frontage" (it is a 12' wide creek, really, known as the Yahara River). Views and privacy are fabulous, as the great room will look totally past the back yard of my neighbor's home (which I probably will be building next year), the kitchen looks out to another neighbor's garden, and my office looks out toward the two homes I built last year but actually out to a beautiful water retention pond which has grown up rather nicely with cat tails. Past our back yard and the river is about 1/4+ mile of wetlands until the fields of a 600 acre master-planned neighborhood which I'll be building in over the next 20 years.

I built 3 other homes in my neighborhood of 25 or so, plus designed two others that were built by homeowners working as their own general contractors.

Detailing isn't yet done but it is far enough for me to begin some detailed budgeting with my suppliers and subs!

So I hope to hear from (m)any of you with your input, as the design is not fully complete. There are a few flaws in the exterior detailing yet but I'm sure you'll get the picture.

I've printed to PDF's and attached them here; the original file is 36 megs FYI.

We just found out a week ago that my wife is pregnant with our 2nd... so we'll be half-way to filling up the upstairs bedrooms! (She wants 4+... I've become convinced that 4 is oK but '+' has me a bit concerned yet....!) Of course we don't plan to finish the lower level at this time. (I don't expect that we'll need bedrooms 6 and 7! They're just there for the plans.

So... post away!

[adegnan]

Here are some building sections as well.

[CADTigress]

Hi.. Can I ask you what program did you do your house in? What is the version?

Thanks in advance..BTW the house is really nice, huge like I like them.. How many Sq Ft?

[David Kim]

Nice work Abe, but I noticed on your color elevation, I think A6 that you have a triangular shape coming out of the ground like I have. Does anyone know why this is happening?

[David Kim]

nevermind....saw your post on the general thread...

[mlgatzke]

Abe,

Nice "digs". The plan seems quite spread out, lots of corners. Apparently budget is not a concern yet. The nice thing is that this type of plan allows you more windows from two or more directions in each room. This will add to the enjoyment of the house.

A few points:

I like the Main floor "flow", but it seems to dissolve in the Upper Floor and Basement. They just don't seem to "flow" and "volume" out as nice as the Main Floor.
Also, have you ever used a two-story garage? I've never seen one that worked as well as it was intended.
Finally, and not to be negative, but the bedrooms seem fragmented and scattered. The Upper and Basement plans are very "compartmentalized". This is what's losing the "flow" of the space. Could you have some of the kids share rooms? Just think, if you pair the kids you'll lose half the bedrooms and each bedroom can be larger while still using less space overall.
Just my 2 cents.
BTW, In case your interested - my wife and I have started building recently. We struggled with our design for over 2 years. To give you an idea, the construction documents were released as Design 11a-Rev 2. I'm posting the Plan, Elevations, and Misc. Views sheets (Sorry, but I felt I should block out the address section of the titleblock). This project was fully developed on Revit, beginning in r4.5. The construction is about 50% complete currently. Should be done around mid-October (which means, in reality, probably early November). I've attached a recent photo of the project too.

[adegnan]

Mike,


Thank you for the valuable feedback. The lower level is quite thrown together, I would say. It gets met started (I guess you could say!) and will continue to evolve. There are several challenges to it in terms of mechanical placements.

You are right on the bedroom size. We actually plan to leave the wall out between the two front bedrooms (4 & 5) and cover the door opening over and use it as one bedroom with bunk beds until the kids get older and then we can evaluate whether they want/need separate rooms. I want to be able to provide separate bedrooms at some point for them, but not necessarily right away. And the home has enough space, this gives them a private space of their own but I think will encourage them to spend much time with the family. At least that is our hope! (So, while the 2nd floor plan is yes, somewhat compartmentalized, it does fit our needs.)

The 2-story garage will serve as a shop and storage for my construction company. Also, there was some fill on this site during grading, so I will need to dig a deep foundation in any case, so it is only about $10,000 more to have the span-crete installed. I plan to do the exposed walls in face brick or possibly split-face CMU for better appearance (as the brick and CMU will not be both visible at one with a minor exception on the side of the garage).

I posted a site plan with the 3 other neighboring homes shown. The topography is very primitive and the elevations do not match up perfectly but it was as much as I could illustrate in 10 minutes.


(David, I'm going to review the advice from my other post about the triangles and get to the bottom of it from the advice Metaonia gave me.)

PS, Mike, I like your plans as well! It is a nice hybrid prairie style. My version is "9a" and had actually gone to "10" but I didn't like "10" and went back to 9a. (There were over 12 different versions, total, anyway.)

(Ecrain, this whole project and the 3 other homes shown on the site plan were all developed in Revit, going back to around release 4.0.)

[adegnan]

Well, PeterJ PM'd me with some questions but Pete, since your PM box is full, I couldn't reply! Instead I'll just post here....





Abe



I didn't want to ask this in the thread because I have some pretty basic questions and many of them may be answered by the simple response 'because this is an american house'.



Here goes.



Why is there no route out from the kitchen or the laundry into the garden? If nothing else, where do you put the trash out? (I know you would need a deck, but...)



Why does one pass through the kitchen to get to the great room? If you have a more formal visitor (but not someone headed for your office) don't you want to keep them clear of the dining and kitchen area which are the messy family spaces?



I'm surprised that after the detailed description of what is around you there is no site plan, which would be very helpful in understanding how it all relates to its surround.



I suspect some of this stuff is just me not having a feel for the difference in approaches so I'm not meaning to harangue you, I'm just genuinely curious.



P

Pete,



In most American houses the trash cans are kept in the garage. This will be the case with me, so quite a direct route from the kitchen to the garage.





The garden that I think I described near the dining room where the corner is with the Great Room will probably be perennials, with the garden maintenance being again from the garage out to the front yard and around. (Rather than through the dining room, etc.) I'll be looking at my neighbor's garage from this dining room, probably (contrary to the model which has an old version of the neighbors house) and so I may do some significant trees and shrubbery for screening in this area as well.



As far as passing through the kitchen- it is a decision and choice that we made. The house fits to the lot constraints and setbacks while providing the form and shape we desired, and providing certain views while screening others. Also it is becoming rather common, and desired by us, to actually create a sitting area adjacent to the kitchen. So this "hallway" between the kitchen and dining room, leading to the great room, will actually be a space with a double-sided fireplace and a couple of over-stuffed easy chairs for the kids to read or do homework while my wife is making dinner, etc... again, it fits our lifestyle. Further, our kitchen (and many American kitchens-and kitchens in Europe as well I'm sure) are show places of cabinetry and materials, and ours will be no exception. When you think of the kitchen starting at the edge of the corridor, and the corridor having a cozy nook carved from it around the fireplace, I think it makes sense.



Also, See the site plan and the rudimentary JP G's that I posted just minutes ago.



What do you think?? Does it make more sense to you, or does it still leave you with different answers if you were designing it?



Thanks for the feedback! This is what I was looking for. Because at least I know that I have justification for all the solutions I created, to the questions you asked!!

[PeterJ]

In most American houses the trash cans are kept in the garage. This will be the case with me, so quite a direct route from the kitchen to the garage.

As far as passing through the kitchen- it is a decision and choice that we made. The house fits to the lot constraints and setbacks while providing the form and shape we desired, and providing certain views while screening others. Also it is becoming rather common, and desired by us, to actually create a sitting area adjacent to the kitchen. So this "hallway" between the kitchen and dining room, leading to the great room, will actually be a space with a double-sided fireplace and a couple of over-stuffed easy chairs for the kids to read or do homework while my wife is making dinner, etc... again, it fits our lifestyle. Further, our kitchen (and many American kitchens-and kitchens in Europe as well I'm sure) are show places of cabinetry and materials, and ours will be no exception. When you think of the kitchen starting at the edge of the corridor, and the corridor having a cozy nook carved from it around the fireplace, I think it makes sense.

Also, See the site plan and the rudimentary JP G's that I posted just minutes ago.

I see what you mean about the rubbish, but don't you ever hang your laundry out on a line? I also see understand what you mean about the kitchen and the 'hallway' and so on and that is just something that differs from the English mindset. Most of my developer clients want a showpiece kitchen in their larger houses and a separate entertaining area, if I showed them a house where you passed through the kitchen to get to the main living room they wouldn't accept it. What this means in practice is that we end up with a living room accessed direct from the entrance hall and a family room beyond the kitchen so that we have formal and informal spaces respectively, but it does make for larger houses or smaller rooms.

I get the picture about the site plan, thanks.

[Martin P]

Hi Abe, I like the layout of this house very open, and much larger than we do generally things here! You must have enjoyed coming up with this. A small point I noticed that we may have done diffferent over here would be to mirror your coat room so that you accessed the powder room from there, just for a bit more privacy, (and we are required by the building regs to have at least 2 doors between a kitchen and any WC.)

hope you dont mind me throwing in a comment!

[PeterJ]

and we are required by the building regs to have at least 2 doors between a kitchen and any WC.
Are you? It used to be the case that you required a ventilated lobby but that hasn't been true for 15 years or more, however, it is an enduring myth down here. Must be one of the subtle differences between our regs and yours.

[adegnan]

Hi Abe, I like the layout of this house very open, and much larger than we do generally things here! You must have enjoyed coming up with this. A small point I noticed that we may have done diffferent over here would be to mirror your coat room so that you accessed the powder room from there, just for a bit more privacy, (and we are required by the building regs to have at least 2 doors between a kitchen and any WC.)

hope you dont mind me throwing in a comment!
That is very interesting! Never heard of that rule, and I never actually realized it or paid any attention to it when I spent time in Oxford... (but from Pete's post you may have different regulations in Scotland than England?).

As far as 2 doors, does a "doorway" count, that is a jambed door opening without a physical door panel, or must it be a literal door? And, would a dormitory be subject to this rule? (I'm thinking of the floor plan of the dorm where I stayed at Oxford Brookes which would have been in compliance with this version of the rule.)

My wife wanted the WC to be easily accessible. It wouldn't have been that big of a change to have it accessed from the back hallway/corridor but she likes it this way. I'm slightly torn.

Pete, I think I'll also be adding a deck and a stairway out to the back yard. We may have a clothes line. We do hang our laundry some at our current home, but American's are (generally) lazy about this and even as moderately energy-conscious folk, my wife tends put probably 75% of our laundry in the dryer. I also plan to have a wood-burning fireplace in the Great Room and I'll need access to bring the wood into the screened porch. I haven't quite resolved the form of the deck yet and I need to think about it. (Suggestions?)

But I'm trying to break ground for this in less than a month so right now I'm focused on the big picture!

[Martin P]

Abe if your wife wants it there, you arent torn at all - that is where it goes! LOL...

Pete it appears you are correct, it was apparently taken out in the last issue - but it was there ;) - we still do it anyway. - Urban myths about the building regs!! though it does seem to make some sense to have an intervening ventillated space.

Interesting Abe that you were at Oxford Brookes, I am still deciding wheter to start doing my degree through them via distance learning this year - they are the only place in the UK that can offer this, its a long course though, and I am pretyy busy as it is - so maybe not this year.....

[aaronrumple]

Can I live in the pool house?

[CADTigress]

You are right on the bedroom size. We actually plan to leave the wall out between the two front bedrooms (4 & 5) and cover the door opening over and use it as one bedroom with bunk beds until the kids get older and then we can evaluate whether they want/need separate rooms.

The 2-story garage will serve as a shop and storage for my construction company. Also, there was some fill on this site during grading, so I will need to dig a deep foundation in any case, so it is only about $10,000 more to have the span-crete installed.

I plan to do the exposed walls in face brick or possibly split-face CMU for better appearance (as the brick and CMU will not be both visible at one with a minor exception on the side of the garage).

(Ecrain, this whole project and the 3 other homes shown on the site plan were all developed in Revit, going back to around release 4.0.)

Abe!

I really like your idea on leaving out the wall for the kids, you and your wife are thinking way ahead of their personal dev. as a family. That is great.

Could you tell me what is span-crete? Do they install the full framed concrete construction of the basement? The CMUs being exposed, would that be good being as critters might call the inside of them home? Or am I understanding wrong? Just curious.

I like your site plan, keep us posted on all that youv'e accomplished! I find it most interesting. I breathe this stuff!!

Ciao!

[adegnan]

Abe!

I really like your idea on leaving out the wall for the kids, you and your wife are thinking way ahead of their personal dev. as a family. That is great.

Could you tell me what is span-crete? Do they install the full framed concrete construction of the basement? The CMUs being exposed, would that be good being as critters might call the inside of them home? Or am I understanding wrong? Just curious.

I like your site plan, keep us posted on all that youv'e accomplished! I find it most interesting. I breathe this stuff!!

Ciao!
Ecrain,

Yes, we are thinking ahead. With wishes for 4-5 kids we need to think quite far ahead (and my wife used to want to be done having kids by the time she is 30)!

Span Crete is a brand of pre-stressed hollow core concrete. 8" will span up to 28'. It is extruded somehow in lengths up to hundreds of feet long and then cut to the length. Then a 3" concrete topping is poured on top. I may use a different brand than Span Crete but that has become a generic term around here.

So the basement walls are full depth with footings and a floor poured. Around the back side where the wall is fully exposed there will be a 4' frost wall below grade. I plan to use 10" split face CMU above grade to enclose the area. (Or, I may use 8" CMU with 4" brick facing as well.) Critters would not be able to get into the wall or the lower garage any better than in standard circumstances-- it will be as secure as any other building system.

Thanks for the comments.

[CADTigress]

Ecrain,

Yes, we are thinking ahead. With wishes for 4-5 kids we need to think quite far ahead (and my wife used to want to be done having kids by the time she is 30)!

Span Crete is a brand of pre-stressed hollow core concrete. 8" will span up to 28'. It is extruded somehow in lengths up to hundreds of feet long and then cut to the length. Then a 3" concrete topping is poured on top. I may use a different brand than Span Crete but that has become a generic term around here.

So the basement walls are full depth with footings and a floor poured. Around the back side where the wall is fully exposed there will be a 4' frost wall below grade. I plan to use 10" split face CMU above grade to enclose the area. (Or, I may use 8" CMU with 4" brick facing as well.) Critters would not be able to get into the wall or the lower garage any better than in standard circumstances-- it will be as secure as any other building system.

Thanks for the comments.

4-5 kids by age 30! Wow you two are on a mission. 3 more to go! I understand more now about Span Crete. Thanks for sharing your info, I never heard of it. Sounds like your going to have a real secure area. No critters..you are doing great! What a great feeling to have your house being built.

Can't wait one day to build mine that I designed!

[Scott D Davis]

Span Crete is a brand of pre-stressed hollow core concrete. 8" will span up to 28'. It is extruded somehow in lengths up to hundreds of feet long and then cut to the length.
There is a Span-crete production plant near here. While in college, we got to tour the facility. The 'beds' they lay the panels in are probably 1/2 mile long. They lay out the cables for reinforcing, and then prestress them. Then an extrusion machine pulls itself along the cables, and with the proper concrete mix, the 'shape' is extruded perfectly around the cables, with tubular 'air spaces' within the length of the panel. They will lay the entire length as one pour, then let it set. Then they come back and saw cut it to length. This causes the panels to deflect upward slightly, depending on design. Then when they are put in place on the site and 'loaded' with the normal building stresses, they flatten out.

Here...better than explaining it, I found a link to the video! (http://www.spancrete-machinery.com/bauma.html)

[CADTigress]

There is a Span-crete production plant near here. While in college, we got to tour the facility. The 'beds' they lay the panels in are probably 1/2 mile long. They lay out the cables for reinforcing, and then prestress them. Then an extrusion machine pulls itself along the cables, and with the proper concrete mix, the 'shape' is extruded perfectly around the cables, with tubular 'air spaces' within the length of the panel. They will lay the entire length as one pour, then let it set. Then they come back and saw cut it to length. This causes the panels to deflect upward slightly, depending on design. Then when they are put in place on the site and 'loaded' with the normal building stresses, they flatten out.

Here...better than explaining it, I found a link to the video! (http://www.spancrete-machinery.com/bauma.html)


Thanks Scott for the link to the video! That is so interesting how it is made.. Huge I should say.. I understand better now even more. I wonder what they use in MO?

So can they use this for prefabricated building structures? where the whole building can be made from it? Or is that something diff?

[Scott D Davis]

yes, they can be used horizontally for floors, flipped on edge and 'hung' as a skin. Pretty cool stuff. More info at WWW.SPANCRETE.COM (http://www.SPANCRETE.COM)

[adegnan]

4-5 kids by age 30! Wow you two are on a mission. 3 more to go! I understand more now about Span Crete. Thanks for sharing your info, I never heard of it. Sounds like your going to have a real secure area. No critters..you are doing great! What a great feeling to have your house being built.

Can't wait one day to build mine that I designed!
I don't know if we'll make 4 by 30! (technically she wanted to be done at 29). So we're at 1st-24, 2nd- 27... 3 and 4 won't come that quick for us! Let alone 5!

[adegnan]

Mike, I meant to ask you about your drawings:

Did you do a lot of linework to get the bold lines on your elevation?

Have you changed the standard lineweights much? It looks like you have custom dimension styles, which read very well.

What about your wall thickness? It looks like you have this in course view with a shaded fill? And you have a thin exterior skin for the siding and masonry (but no true thickness represented in plan view?)

It looks very nice and reads well.

[CADTigress]

I don't know if we'll make 4 by 30! (technically she wanted to be done at 29). So we're at 1st-24, 2nd- 27... 3 and 4 won't come that quick for us! Let alone 5!

Well even if you don't you have A Lot to be proud of! Good for you! I am really happy for you both! :)

Scott:

Thanks for all those cool links. I am going to check it out throughout my day today.. That is some pretty cool stuff !

[mlgatzke]

Mike, I meant to ask you about your drawings:

Did you do a lot of linework to get the bold lines on your elevation?

Have you changed the standard lineweights much? It looks like you have custom dimension styles, which read very well.

What about your wall thickness? It looks like you have this in course view with a shaded fill? And you have a thin exterior skin for the siding and masonry (but no true thickness represented in plan view?)

It looks very nice and reads well.
Abe,

Thanks. I used to take great pride in my hand-drafting abilities prior to CAD and now BIM. I have an artistic background (my dad was a professional artist). This has fine tuned my interest in aesthetics of the drawings. After all, yes, the building is our design, but the drawings are a creation of ours as well and deserve as much thought and care.

Yes, I like to use the Linework tool extensively on my elevations and sections. It really doesn't take "that" long to do and dramatically improves the look of the drawings.

No, I haven't changed the lineweights. I've just added a couple. I've created one between the Thin and Medium weights and another between the Medium and Heavy weights as well. This gives me much more control.

The dimensions have had quite a bit of tweaking. Thanks for the compliment, I like them too. Contractors have even complimented me on them. As you know, that's where it counts.

As far as walls: You are right - course view detail with a shaded fill (pale yellow - this allows a quicker realization of mass versus void). The siding is thin - as it should be. The reason the masonry is thin is because it's the Owens Corning Cultured Stone - a thin-set product. It's only 1 1/4" thick on average.

Taking the time to create a clean, accurate, easily read, and easily understood set of drawings has actually reduced some of the bids on my projects (which clients REALLY like). Thanks again.

Your design is nice. Don't worry, very much, about the criticisms. You know, better than anyone else, how you plan to use your house. As much as possible, involve your wife (your kids appear a little young yet) - get their opinions. For instance, I gave my kids a lot of control over the program and design of their rooms. They are itching to move and constantly want to take their friends to the site to show them their rooms - that they designed.

Personally, I'm still not sure about the shake siding over the ledger stone wainscot, but I'll keep playing with ideas. Are you going to AU?