Technology's Impact on Economic Divisions

[Wanderer]

Was reading an article a few weeks back on how technological advances are impacting our economic classes. Saying that there are fewer jobs nowadays, and will be even less in the future that pay well with little education (such as manufacturing, which can be all but completely automated). So, everyone who needs a good-paying job in the future will HAVE to possess a college degree. So, if you can't afford to go to college, you can't get a good job, and you can't send your kids to college, perpetuating socioeconomic class station through generations.
There has always been somewhat of a gap. In most developed countries these days, the opportunities have been available for people to move up with hard work and experience alone, and aided by education when they could get it.
Are these gaps going to get larger because of technological advances?
Is this the beginning of the end of the middle class?

(anyone who has read 'brave new world' or '1984' might already have some views of how this could play out)

[rosterreicher]

the opportunities have been available for people to move up with hard work and experience alone, and aided by education when they could get it.
I am where I am, From my Experience & ability..
I do not have a College Degree. I have a Tech Certificate in Mech Engineering from Purdue.. But No Bach. etc.

Just my story,
I started here as a press operator, After 6 Months & Sup's seeing my abilities.i was moved up to Die setter After about 1.5 years of that and showing my Abilities I was moved up into the Tool Room (Where the Tools & Dies are Built & Repaired) after a few months in there i was moved up to Senior Administrator in Toolroom, Basically Asst Mgr. After about 2 years I got moved Up to Engineering assistant. After about 3 months i began Designing Dies, After a about 6 months thats all i do, after about 6 more months, I'm in charge of Tool & Die Design (At this Division).

So to sum it up..I started At the Very bottom, Worked my way up pretty close to the top in little over 5 years..
I was offered a position to be Shift Supervisor a few times (1 time for 2nd shift, once for 3rd)
I was also offered the job of being a Product leader (Supervisor for a group of products, or family of parts)
But i turned them down because i do not feel that those jobs were my calling. Even though they paid more, I 'd rather make less and do what i like to do..

Been like that at most of my jobs,
Right outta H/S i was an Eng Helper for a Furnace / A/c Company plant by here..
After a few months i moved up to Assistant with Engineers.
After a few months I was put in R&D, Since some of my Ideas for some things were, as they said very promising. So then I got to start doing my own R&D experiments & such..

Worked at the Airport here for a few Years..
Started as a Pump Attendant. After a bit started helping the Shop Mechanic/IA (Inspector), Next thing i knew i was doing a Lot of the Maintenance, The IA signed my work off, Even an FAA Inspector told me he was very impressed with my work..
(Heck of a Quality Policy,, Whenever i was Done, My boss who was also the Company pilot & i would take it for test flight..)

Another BIG thing too.
I have never once kissed an A** or whatever..
ALways stuck to what i thought was right. Even had a few "Disagreements with Super's)
But ya know what.. I think that the Boss's have more respect for those who don't Kiss A**
I know not all Boss's..
I don't care, I refuse to ever Kiss A to get somewhere.
Just me but I know I Have little respect for those who Brown nose & have their head up the B's As*

But anyhow, Point is you can go somewhere without a Degree, Not as far though (I'm still going to school, But not this semester)
All it takes it Common sense and taking pride in what you do.
Maybe i'm just crazy..

[Wanderer]

I am where I am, From my Experience & ability..
I do not have a College Degree. I have a Tech Certificate in Mech Engineering from Purdue.. But No Bach. etc.
But anyhow, Point is you can go somewhere without a Degree, Not as far though (I'm still going to school, But not this semester)
All it takes it Common sense and taking pride in what you do.
Maybe i'm just crazy..
I believe as you do, that your hard work can get you where you want to go. My story is similar to yours. (took me 4 years to get my 2 year degree lol)
So, let me play the devil's advocate, as I so like to do...

This is a question of the average worker, who is good, but, doesn't stand out from the crowd. A truly exceptional person will get their foot in the door by working their way through the ranks from the very bottom. But, an average person, or even a very good one, won't even be able to get their foot in the door without a bachelor's, or even a master's degree (in this theory). They have to know you and work with you to be impressed by you.

thanks for the good reply.

[CADKitty]

I think I'm going pessimistic on this one . . .

Technology is a necessary tool. Without it, we wouldn't have medicine, cars, homes, or many of us, even our jobs. The idea of "go to college or be left behind" has been looming on the horizon for quite some time, and it seems like it's finally here. However, I've seen too many people go off to college to be an accoutant, or a business major, or go into human resources, and come out of college with a shiny, new diploma - and no job. Why? Too many people in the same field, and they're not all needed. So, then they either go back to college for something else, or wind up flipping burgers at McDonald's.

There has always been some Darwinism in the workplace - go with the flow, change as needed, never stop learning, or get left behind. Is the middle class suffering because of this? Certainly. Otherwise, why would so many people have to go back to school after 20+ years to learn the new technologies so they can keep their job!

The days of graduating from high school and getting a job are gone forever. Does this put a strain on individuals/families? Unfortunately, yes. But there are ways around it. If you can put yourself through community college, then transfer to a 4-year school, the financial burden is much lighter when you're done. Better still if you can get your associate's, then find an employer who will pay for the rest of your education down the line (or right away!). That way, you don't have to worry about more loans, you have a job so you can pay back the old loans, and you're getting "real world" experience all at the same time.

The world is changing. The middle class is becoming more and more separated from the upper class. Is technology to blame? Maybe, but who's to say that the separation wouldn't have happened anyway. Only time will tell.

[rosterreicher]

I think I'm going pessimistic on this one . . .

Technology is a necessary tool. Without it, we wouldn't have medicine, cars, homes, or many of us, even our jobs. The idea of "go to college or be left behind" has been looming on the horizon for quite some time, and it seems like it's finally here. However, I've seen too many people go off to college to be an accoutant, or a business major, or go into human resources, and come out of college with a shiny, new diploma - and no job. Why? Too many people in the same field, and they're not all needed. So, then they either go back to college for something else, or wind up flipping burgers at McDonald's.

There has always been some Darwinism in the workplace - go with the flow, change as needed, never stop learning, or get left behind. Is the middle class suffering because of this? Certainly. Otherwise, why would so many people have to go back to school after 20+ years to learn the new technologies so they can keep their job!

The days of graduating from high school and getting a job are gone forever. Does this put a strain on individuals/families? Unfortunately, yes. But there are ways around it. If you can put yourself through community college, then transfer to a 4-year school, the financial burden is much lighter when you're done. Better still if you can get your associate's, then find an employer who will pay for the rest of your education down the line (or right away!). That way, you don't have to worry about more loans, you have a job so you can pay back the old loans, and you're getting "real world" experience all at the same time.

The world is changing. The middle class is becoming more and more separated from the upper class. Is technology to blame? Maybe, but who's to say that the separation wouldn't have happened anyway. Only time will tell.I think another thing is choice in course of study..
I've seen it tto often, With H/S classmates, People here at work..
They'd go to school for something, The only reason they went for it was "It Pay's good", or simply "I dunno" Then they get their degree,, Can't stand their job, and end up going back for something else, or just giving up and working entry level production job..(Not in any way implying that that's a bad thing)

So anyhow, Then they go back to school, 2 sometimes 3 times for different degree's,
So now, They are in a sense locked out of Easy jobs to find because they are "Overqualified" or when they do finally get that good job,, They don't get to enjoy their high pay because they are gonna be pauing student loans up the yin yang for the next 30 or so years..

I guess what i'm trying to say is: If your gionna go, Go for what you like to do.. and Be patient.
Never Take a Job based solely on the pay.. Liking what you do is worth more than the extra pay..
But that's me & my crazy moral.

[Glenn Pope]

But that's me & my crazy moral.
I guess I'm crazy too.

I didn't go to collage, and there are still several opportunities out there for me. The same with my brother. He is one of the top programmers in his company, and doesn't have a degree.

[CADKitty]

I guess what i'm trying to say is: If your gonna go, Go for what you like to do.. and Be patient. Never Take a Job based solely on the pay.. Liking what you do is worth more than the extra pay.. But that's me & my crazy moral.
Amen!!!

The one thing I keep telling people over and over is to take advantage of internships while you're still in school! That way, if you think you might want to, say, be a pastry chef, you can get first-hand experience of what it is they do all day, and see if you really DO like it or not. I did one internship in h.s. and two in college - the last one became my "real" job, where I still am today. I had no sympathy for the people in my graduating class who were whining that they couldn't find jobs. At any given time, there were 10 different internships to be had in the drafting field. It's not my fault they couldn't get up off their lazy a$$*$ and interview for one!!!!

Ok, I'm done now . . . (puts soapbox back in closet - for now)

[Brian Myers]

I'm not sure if having a degree matters as much as the career choices you make along the way and which jobs will actually be around when you reach that stage in your career.

Example: I don't know anyone that went to school so that they could specifically become a buyer (aka the person that orders/purchases all the products) for Target. But they all have one.

I also don't know anyone that ever had the dream of being a career manager at a fast food restaurant... but thousands of people across the country are...some with a degree, some don't.

In time many good paying jobs will be gone due to the change in technology and it will be up to us to find other careers which are just as rewarding financially and mentally.

But if the question is this: Will technology make life hard and EVENTUALLY put people out of work? Yes and no. I like to think that people will move on to where opportunity exists in order to help their families. Whether that means moving on to other countries or populating areas that man has yet to populate (the seas or space) man will move on to continue to better himself and make a good life for themselves and their offspring. There is a saying that man has the "Spirit of Adventure and Exploration". In reality man has the "Spirit of Survival" and will go to great lengths to give themselves a better life.

[Glenn Pope]

It all balances out in the end. When one type of job is lost because of technology, several more jobs are created because of that technology. To create it, upgrade it, and to maintain it. Like bmyers said, people will move on to these new jobs so that they can continue supporting their families. Life is ever changing, so are jobs. You have to change to keep up. Thats the way it's always been.

[slayer913]

My comparison of a degree vs education: I too landed my job right out of high school. So six years of experience in school going in, and since then I've grow to play a large role in the company. I'm the only designer here, with a wide range of skills and responsibilities that are applied towards almost every project we get. Now, my employer was willing to take a chance on me, and I appreciate it greatly to this day. I like to think that chance paid off! They merely asked to see that I was competent in what I was doing, and being so, I could probably make a career out of what I do without going any further than the Certifications I'm currently finishing up.

However on the other hand, I'm also starting a side business of my own, doing consulting and design work. Now, the customers looking to contract to me want to see education and experience. When I hand them a history of experience and certificates, they are convinced. If I tell them "No, my only credential is my word," they tend to politely take their work elsewhere.

My rule: The more, the better. I have an ongoing education in the engineering field, work everyday in an engineering environment, and take it upon myself to learn and use the latest and greatest that technology has to offer. I am not ashamed to asked questions, or say "I don't know." I am humble, I listen, and I am thankful for all that I've been given so far. My key to success is to never stop - if you reach one goal, make a new one, and climb that ladder until you die. There is no such thing as overqualified unless you specialize yourself out of the market - and in that case, just use what you've always known and you'll be back in the game.

Thanks, Albert.

[thomas.stright]

I went into the apprenticeship shortly after HS, Did 5 yrs going to class twice a week at night, Became a journeyman, Then a foreman, Now I'm a Senior Mechanical Coordinator / Cad Manager for my company. We do plan and spec construction along with alot of design build. I teach advanced plan reading and intro to computers at my apprenticeship school and I'm also an International Instructor in our Instructor training program for the United Association.


All this with no college in my field. I do have an AA as a paramedic/firefighter but the pay in that field is very lacking. IMHO technology has opened many doors for me. :smile:

[jaberwok]

The one thing everyone here is going to have in common is intelligence. With intelligence, even without high-level formal education, you educate yourself in areas that matter to you - and it shows to those in a position to offer you advancement. It's just a shame that, for many, intelligence is something to be concealed because to be born with it is seen as being, in some way,elitist.

[Homerloew]

In time many good paying jobs will be gone due to the change in technology and it will be up to us to find other careers which are just as rewarding financially and mentally.


In the September issue of Readers Digest there is an article that discusses this topic. In the article there is a statistic I found amazing. For every 1% gain in national productivity there is a loss of 1.3 million jobs. This loss in jobs in not due to taxes, outsourcing overseas, or recession. They are lost because of technology and people getting better at what they did. Little side note: Kerry is giving Bush alot of hell for losing 1million jobs, couldn't these job losses be because of increased productivity?????

Isn't Henry Ford one of the reasons the carriage making industry went under? Because of AutoCAD are there not less drafters now than 30 years ago? The days of graduating high school and landing a job at the local factory, working there 30 years and retiring with a nice pension are GONE!!! A few years ago I read somewhere that the average person graduating high school that day would change jobs 10 times and careers 3 times before retirement. I'm 30 and on career #2. When an industry "dies" another begins. How many web designers did you see 20 years ago? Or Computer Techs? Look where the medical field is today vs. yesterday. Am I glad my wife is going to be a nurse or what!!!

If you want to get a job out of high school and do that the rest of your life, the only place for that to happen is the building trades. Electricians, plumbers, tin knockers :) etc.... But be carefully even they are going to have to endure constant schooling just to maintain.