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Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Please describe what hardware you're using with Revit 2010. Include:
- video card model and manufacturer (e.g. Asus Geforce 9600 GT)
- driver version and provider (i.e. manufacturer's driver or nVidia reference)
- operating system and 32-bit or 64-bit (we're only interested in Vista or Win7 in this thread)
A summary of working and non working cards will be shown in this post based on input into this forum. "Working" means enabling D3D acceleration in Revit does not cause any problems and improves performance. There is no guarantee that these cards may or may not work for you; it just improves the chances of users choosing a model that works. To check if your card works, open up a non-shadowed 3D view, zoom in close to your model and orbit. Disappearing or flashing objects while orbiting means D3D acceleration is not working properly.
Working Cards
- ATI Mobility Radeon 4650 under Vista 32
- ATI FireGL V5600 under Win7 64
- ATI FireGL V7600
- nVidia Quadro FX580 under Win7 64
- nVidia Quadro FX1800
- nVidia Quadro FX370M (Dell) under Win7 64
- nVidia Quadro FX3800 under Win7 64 (186.30 driver)
- nVidia GeForce 9600 GT / 512MB (Asus EN9600GT Silent), nVidia Driver Version: 195.62 WHQL under Win7 64
- nVidia Quadro NVS 295 (note that this is NOT a CAD card -- it's designed for 2D)
Non-Working Cards
- ATI Mobility Radeon 4670 under Win7 64
- ATI Radeon 4670 under Vista
- ATI FireGL V3400
- ATI FireGL V5600 under Vista
- ATI FireGL V5100 under Win7 64
My experience with Vista and Windows 7 has just begun -- I've been on XP till now and I've heard little from users as to their experiences with their video hardware and driver combinations on Vista and Win7.
For instance, I bought this new Dell laptop because it came with Radeon video, which has been golden for me on XP for years. But with DX enabled in Revit, video performance worsens and objects flicker and disappear in any given view as you zoom in/out (it happens particularly at close range). I'm on Win7 x64 and using Catalyst 9.11. Autodesk provides a recommended driver for the 4600 series Radeons which is Catalyst 9.8, but there is no difference between that and the driver Dell supplies. The 9.11 driver doesn't improve things much.
Are other people seeing this with Geforce and Radeon models -- i.e. DX doesn't work, and it's faster to work with it off? I'll be sorely amused if Geforce hardware works better :-P
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
No problems for me so far:
Dell Precision M2400, Quadro FX370M, Windows 7 64-bit.
Graphics work with no problems with Direct X on.
Graphics performance is the same as XP was.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Hmm -- this may just reinforce that getting a CAD card rather than a consumer card is the way to go :-(
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Does Autodesk not provide any guidance in this matter? Surely they know what works and what doesn't. If they don't they know they should find out. All this consumer trial and error is a costly waste of time.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Support have told me to use the cards on the AutoCAD certified graphics cards for Revit.
The whole graphics card issue seems very random to me. We just use quadro cards as we know they work (although they are slower on our projects upgraded to 2010 than they were in 2009, particulalry with shadows on).
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
That is pretty random, Andrew -- esp since a lot of people have seen display performance increases with 2010 over 2009.
Autodesk needs to get their glue together on graphic cards and Revit. They need a page just like AutoCAD has but for Revit. The word is that Revit and AutoCAD are going to share the DirectX-based graphics back-end (perhaps they do already) -- but the bottom line is, DirectX isn't working and it ought to be. If I turn on D3D my display gets positively sludgy.
But Windows 7 isn't supported yet :roll: -- not that I would want to have Vista64 installed instead; this is the future and hopefully the Factory will fix this in the next release
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Wes,
By coincidence, I have just read this article about the new Dell Laptops. Could the GPU issues described in this article correspond with the problems that you are having with your laptop?
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/lapto...-studio-1557/2
We need to buy a new laptop for one of our users, and it is a shame that the new i7 chips are not available for Precision models yet.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Hey Andrew -- interesting article. I got a 9 cell battery but I have the XPS Studio 16, which is quite a different model from the Studio 15.
I've even tried a variety of driver versions to no avail. I'd have to try a machine running Vista, but since there's little difference driver-wise between how Vista and Win7 handle drivers, I think the problem would affect Vista too. I think the Factory has not yet got Revit to work properly with D3D and WHQL and all that stuff.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Also -- I've tried the same hardware on Vista 32 -- same problems.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Maybe a new driver release will fix it, maybe a new Revit SP will fix it, maybe neither.
All I can say is that I've had so many problems with Revit HWA over the last few releases that I've pretty much given up on it. If it works, great, if it doesn't, I wasn't expecting it to anyway. I get the sense from Autodesk that it's their philosophy as well.
XP, Vista, 7, GF, Quadro, FireGL, all combinations. Even when it appears to work, Revit is simply more prone to crashing with it on (in my experience).
Windows 7 & GF9600 GT appear to work beautifully with Revit 2010 HWA, but I haven't used that setup long enough to get a sense for stability. When 2011 comes out, it will probably stop working... :roll:
:beer:
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Ha! And I'll get to recommend Geforce cards again, LOL
Update: I had used the DriverHeaven MobilityModder utility to allow me to try various versions of the Catalyst driver series, including the latest 9.11 drivers, the 9.8 drivers Autodesk suggests for Acad 2010, and an earlier version. With D3D on in Revit, all of these exhibited similar problems: objects disappeared as you zoom in plan views, and in 3D when zoomed close in to the model. The MobilityModder also allows you to install the FirePro drivers, which I've done. Objects no longer disappear in plans, but they still do in 3D with shadows disabled. With shadows enabled, objects do NOT disappear -- very weird!
So those of you with desktop or laptop Radeon hardware on Vista or 7, you may be able to mod the FirePro drivers and install them with better results than the Radeon Catalyst drivers you are currently using.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
There needs to be a "try before you buy" on graphics cards and Revit. :roll:
My Quadro FX550 has been working fine in Revit and XP x86 (as long as HWA was kept off in 2010), but now it seems to be the bottleneck on my same system upgraded to Win7 x64 (fresh, clean install on a brand new HDD).
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
No way -- Autodesk actually needs to fix this hardware compatibility problem ;-)
We've all tried way too many cards already :shock:
That's why I've changed my sig. Professional level software like Revit really ought to have this fixed by now -- wouldn't you think?
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
We've submitted SR on the Radeon 4670, which is having the problem in both of the computers that have them. For those shopping for hardware, I've seen the Radeon 4650 work perfectly, so it's all very strange.
Summary:
- Good: Radeon HD 4650 on Vista32
- Bad: Radeon HD 4670 on Vista32, Win7 64
Everything else I've got is on XP for now...
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wes Macaulay
We've submitted SR on the Radeon 4670, which is having the problem in both of the computers that have them. For those shopping for hardware, I've seen the Radeon 4650 work perfectly, so it's all very strange.
Wes, after all the emails you and i sent back and forth while i was fighting with machines here, i filed a support request on the Nvidia Quadro FX570, for XP32 based systems. I even told them in the SR that i didnt even care if they had an *officially supported* driver for the card, that i just simply wanted to know what they were USING.
They offered nothing in response, other than a "we do not have official recommendations for video card drivers for revit."
Although, the machines that have moved to Vista64 with the same Quadro FX570, and the same driver version (albeit for x64) seem to be way more stable.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Anyone using a GTX card? Just built a new machine for home with a GTX 260 core 216, haven't had the chance to play in revit yet or do benchmarks. Ill try and do some benchmarks this week though.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kgrant.115222
Anyone using a GTX card? Just built a new machine for home with a GTX 260 core 216, haven't had the chance to play in revit yet or do benchmarks. Ill try and do some benchmarks this week though.
No -- though I'm hoping people will start posting to this thread with their results.
Aaron, I think the Factory doesn't want to take the heat if someone buys the recommended card and it doesn't work! Plus, who wants to take sides on the vendor wars?
This whole thing is a mess. It's hard to lay the blame on the Factory -- I've got a Radeon 4650 which works great (Vista 32). But the mobile 4670 (Win7 64) and the desktop 4670 (Vista 32) don't work with D3D in Revit -- turning D3D on in Revit on the 4670s makes views slower and causes objects to flicker on and off. So with the same drivers, why does the 4650 work with D3D in Revit, and the 4670 not work? :?
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
[quote=It's hard to lay the blame on the Factory :?[/quote]
Not if you know how! I find it quite easy. I'll send you a tutorial!:)
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wes Macaulay
It's hard to solely lay the blame on the Factory...
I corrected your statement for you. ;)
To be fair, video card hardware/drivers have their fair share of idiosyncrasies (err, bugs), and it is a frustrating area for software developers. But we've been talking about this for years now - you can't continue to blame the hardware vendors year after year - Revit has a massively disproportionate failure rate compared to other software using DX (and OpenGL before it).
As you know, DX in Revit 2010 was suppose to help with compatibility - the DX APIs are set by Microsoft and the hardware vendors test against that (WHQL certification).
DX is new to Revit and maybe the Factory just needs another year (even if their track record doesn't speak well for things changing for the better).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kgrant.115222
Anyone using a GTX card? Just built a new machine for home with a GTX 260 core 216, haven't had the chance to play in revit yet or do benchmarks. Ill try and do some benchmarks this week though.
It would be great to know vendor/model and OS and whether it works flawlessly with Revit HWA and your general impressions.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Will do, ill run the RAC and MEP bench tonight. Although last time i tried doing the bench in win7 it wouldnt write the csv file
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iru69
I corrected your statement for you. ;)
DX is new to Revit and maybe the Factory just needs another year (even if their track record doesn't speak well for things changing for the better).
Ha! I am inclined to agree with you, and in fact shared my frustration in the open SR I have on this issue. In the SR I mentioned that DX has supposed to bring wider compatibility but it doesn't seem like we've experienced that. In the SR I stated that I'd like to see a guarantee that WHQL-certified drivers on DirectX will be compatible with Revit.
Here's hoping :?
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
You're talking about that old "Render Benchmark" test? Those benchmark numbers won't tell you anything about your video card.
What we're interested in is how well it works with Revit's HWA... does it crash, are there strange artifacts, does the Ribbon go black, do shadows work, etc... Open up a model and put it through its paces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kgrant.115222
Will do, ill run the RAC and MEP bench tonight. Although last time i tried doing the bench in win7 it wouldnt write the csv file
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Yeah i guess that would help wouldn't it. You guys leaving the GPU settings set to default or are you tweaking it at all.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wes Macaulay
No -- though I'm hoping people will start posting to this thread with their results.
Aaron, I think the Factory doesn't want to take the heat if someone buys the recommended card and it doesn't work! Plus, who wants to take sides on the vendor wars?
This whole thing is a mess. It's hard to lay the blame on the Factory -- I've got a Radeon 4650 which works great (Vista 32). But the mobile 4670 (Win7 64) and the desktop 4670 (Vista 32) don't work with D3D in Revit -- turning D3D on in Revit on the 4670s makes views slower and causes objects to flicker on and off. So with the same drivers, why does the 4650 work with D3D in Revit, and the 4670 not work? :?
In that regard, i dont blame them one bit. Thats why (even though i knew it wouldnt appeal to their more generous tendancies) i didnt ask for an officially recommended card OR driver. In fact, i wasnt asking about a card to use, since i had a particular card i was referencing in the SR.
Actually, i just asked them if they could tell me a particular QuadroFX card DRIVER that they were using in house (whether officially certified, or not), on ANY of the Quadro cards, and they couldnt.
Im not upset though, i understand they really cant. Its just frustrating becasue they either have:
1. A factory full of employees whos computers crash as much as ours (and they wont talk, lol)
2. A factory full of ATI cards that sing perfectly and never waver (and they dont want to support one or the other).
3. A factory with some Quadro cards that theyve gotten to work, but they cant tell us with which drivers or which settings out of obligation not to.
In either case, i sympathize with them. All in all, our crashes arent that frequent, as long as HWA is turned off, and no one is in XP32 with the QFX570, LOL.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Well I couldnt open the model i wanted, dunno why. But i was able to open another arch model and do a simple drafting rendering. No black lines or any other noticeable issue. Ill try and get the good model opened tonight and do a better rendering (more shadows and such) and see how it comes out.
I think my issue is that im not connected to the internet and havent been able to get all the cab files.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kgrant.115222
Well I couldnt open the model i wanted, dunno why. But i was able to open another arch model and do a simple drafting rendering. No black lines or any other noticeable issue. Ill try and get the good model opened tonight and do a better rendering (more shadows and such) and see how it comes out.
The video card has just about nothing to do with rendering (as in Revit). It doesn't matter what video card you have, or whether you have Hardware Acceleration turned on or not, it's not going to affect rendering performance. Rendering is processed by the CPU, not the video card.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
FX580 is working better on 7 than it had on Vista or XP, all 64 bit. Hardware accel is on and I do get a little residual effect where a bunch of entities get highlighted but zooming out seems to release everything. Overall I'm 95% happy with my hardware & 2010 performance. (No mention of railings or other content issues here).
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iru69
You're talking about that old "Render Benchmark" test? Those benchmark numbers won't tell you anything about your video card.
What we're interested in is how well it works with Revit's HWA... does it crash, are there strange artifacts, does the Ribbon go black, do shadows work, etc... Open up a model and put it through its paces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iru69
The video card has just about nothing to do with rendering (as in Revit). It doesn't matter what video card you have, or whether you have Hardware Acceleration turned on or not, it's not going to affect rendering performance. Rendering is processed by the CPU, not the video card.
You lost me.....
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kgrant.115222
You lost me.....
Please excuse me if I misunderstood you and you already are aware of this, but a common misconception is that a faster video card and/or Revit Hardware Acceleration (HWA) results in faster rendering times. It doesn't. It (rendering) doesn't have anything to do with D3D (DirectX) either. Simply put, rendering performance is entirely dependent on the speed of the CPU and RAM.
The "compatibility" being discussed in this thread has to do with working with views and the model, and more specifically when Revit HWA is turned on (since it's rather rare that a video card won't work okay with HWA turned off). When you zoom in and out or orbit around the model, is it smooth or do parts of the model disappear? Does Revit become more prone to crashing? Do shadows work as expected? Do strange graphic artifacts or random lines suddenly appear, etc.
An example is the ATI FireGL V3400 video card in my computer. It works fine with HWA turned off. If I turn HWA on, it appears to be okay for a little while as I work with the model, then random graphic artifacts will suddenly appear or the view will turn completely bright yellow or other weird stuff. So, that video card would go under the "not compatible" with HWA list.
I hope that helps explain what this thread is about.
:beer:
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
OK i got you. I was aware of the first part, but i guess that didnt click in my head when I did a quick rendering. Well based on that The model i opened was a large University Housing project, 250k sq ft or so i think. I switched between a couple views and a 3D view with no issues. Although that was with HWA turned off. Ill do more of that as well as everything else you mentioned.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Re: Video card compatibility with DX and Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wes Macaulay
We've submitted SR on the Radeon 4670, which is having the problem in both of the computers that have them. For those shopping for hardware, I've seen the Radeon 4650 work perfectly, so it's all very strange.
Summary:
- Good: Radeon HD 4650 on Vista32
- Bad: Radeon HD 4670 on Vista32, Win7 64
Everything else I've got is on XP for now...
Wes,
In the company we have the desktop version of the Radeon HD 4670 running on Vista 32bit and Vista 64bit with no problems. We also have the FX1700, FX1500, FX3700 in the same environment running with no problems.
I'm not sure if you where refering to the mobility version or the desktop version of the 4670. I haven't tested the desktop 4670 on Windows 7 32/64bit as i'm yet to build those up as test machines yet.
Heath
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 on Vista 64bit
Don't want to jinx it but yet to have a crash since the subscription install of 2010. We have six machines with this card and the only one with any issues is the only machine running windows 7. It crashes around once every two weeks.
Just wanted to add the driver version I'm using, as it has made a huge difference.
7.15.11.7813
Had issues with all of the recent drivers, model flashing etc...so I started trying older drivers. When I installed the 7.15.11.7813 driver it was like I was using a different machine. I can zoom and rotate a 120Mb hotel like it's in sketch-up.
Night and day
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Good:
Windows 7 x64
Revit 2010
GTX 260 Core 216
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Folks -- just to confirm that things are indeed working for you with D3D:
- in a 3D view, zoom in fairly close to the model
- select an object and orbit. If no objects disappear while you're orbiting, you're good.
The problem we're usually seeing is that objects "flash" on and off when you're zoomed in close to the model and orbiting with D3D enabled. If you're trying to add wall sweeps, and the wall has disappeared, this can be rather frustrating :?
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
I used a 170mb Residence Hall to test the card.
Opened 6 or so views and tabbed between them zooming in and out as i went through, as well as making new sections views. Made a 3D view and turned on section box. Cut through the building and orbited around a floor with no issues, as well as zooming into the floor area.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
NVidia Quadro FX 550
Driver 8.16.11.9100
Having many crashes, so I've disabled the Direct X. Note. I'm running dual monitors of 2 diff. sizes. When I was running dual monitors of the same size I wasn't crashing.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
One computer runs Duo Core Chip Set with 4 gb ram
ATI Radeon X1650
Driver 8.01.01.882
Vista 64 bit
Tested 3d Shaded view with shadows on
No problems at all (no loss of elements, Ribbon Stable, Shadows normal) whilst rotating model with HWA on.
Will Check second box and report later.
Ian
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Good:
ATI FireGL v7600
Nvidia Quadro FX 1800
Bad:
FireGL v3400
The OS doesn't seem to matter all that much, we have a mix of all 3. We had previously standardized on the v3400 but now it doesn't work well in 2010 so we're switching out to the quadro fx 1800 this year
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Win 7 64 Bit
Core I7 860 @ 2.8 GHz
RAC 2010
Nvidia Quadro NVS 295 - no problems whatsoever - and no cooling fan to go bad.
Driver version 191.07
For what's it's worth, I took Wes's recommendations seriously to put the money into the processor and not worry about the video card - it has paid off so far...
Thanks Wes.
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Re: Video card D3D compatibility - Revit 2010 on Vista / Win7
Win Vista x64
Core 2 Duo @ 3.0 GHz
RAC 2010 x64
Nvidia Geforce 9600 GT
Driver 186.18
Flickering & Objects missing when orbiting in 3D view...
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Win7 x64
Core 2 Quad @ 2.66 GHz
RAC 2010 x64
Nvidia Geforce 7950 GT
Driver 195.62
Flickering & Objects missing when orbiting in 3D view...