A New Cable Tray Family

[phyland]

Please find attached a zip of cable ladder families I have created in revitMEP 2010. All based on unistrut metric dimensions (Nema12 through to Nema20C). Project file "Ladder.rvt" has families for individual sizes, "cableLadder-all.rfa" was the original file with family types for sizes (see my parametric modeling questions).
As a complete newcomer to Revit I have several questions, some very basic, as to their use / suitability for use in a project that the forum may be able to help me with. My questions being:

Basic 2D representation
-When used in a plan I only need to see parrallel lines and perhaps a centreline. I've tried drawing in model lines but the message comes up saying the created lines aren't viewable on the reference level. Is this a setting I can control in the family? or only in the project?

-In an elevation, a similar situation after I added a rectangle to show only the rail depth.

-As detail level goes up in the view can I add fine lines to represent the outer edge of the rail? (say at greater than 1:50)

-Do model lines have to be aligned with the controlling reference plane to be stretchable? I can't seem to select them in the align command in the family editor.

-How to hide the models rungs (a variable array) in plan and elevation views using visibilty settings?
My main interest here being to cut down on regeneration (yes! my autocad background)

Parametric Modeling (see the cableLadder-all.rfa file)
-I thought I would be able to change the rail profile in one common family by adding a family type with a parameter <family type>-profile for the profile used to create the sweep ie nema12 rail profile. I can get the dimensioned planes to move to suit the selected family but can't get the instance of the rail profile to change by setting the <family type>-profile parameter. I can manually change the rail profile in the instance within the family. I think my problem here is how to label the sweep so as it is available as a parameter.

-As above I thought I would be able to mirror the profile (or control the flip) or use a sub-family profile to display inward facing rails (ie nema 16a-ir).

My main interest in using parameters is to minimise the family file size. (yes! my autocad background)

Connectors
-I have tried different family catergories, Electrical fixture, Electrical equipment, Generic model etc but can't seem to get a connector type that that at least namewise appears suitable. The families are all saved with generic model family catergory even though cabletray is an option as an "omniclassTitle".

Here I am assuming I will need connectors when I create fittings (tees/cross tees/reducers/bends etc).

-Can connectors be inserted at reference plane intersections?

- Can I have "strong and weak connectors" so I can locate the ladder at a suitable offset from a slab soffit? Ideally to automatically set the ladder at beams, level changes etc.

This is my first attempt at revit modelling so all the files are based on the help file tutorials. If a forum member has the time to check the constraints, dimension locks etc and give some real world insight as to my family construction it would be greatly appreciated. Any comments the forum might have on the families, any answers to my questions, or any tips or forum links would be also be greatly appreciated.

With thanks pth

[bdouglas168405]

As a beginner to Revit myself, I cannot help you with any of your questions. Have you tried a duct connector for your tray? I have tried making a cable tray but yours is so much better that I must say thank you for all your efforts. It is looking good so far.

Thanks again.

[403052]

@phyland

Hi
i found this link while searching the family of trays i found the one you have uploaded but i am not able to open in Revit MEP 2009 is it possible for you to keep it compatible for 2009' version?
I would be very thankful for your help.

Niraj Thorat
India

[ray.lopez]

Hi Guys,

As for your 2D representation, try using Symbolic lines and same for your Elevations. Just make sure your unchecking the visibility for your Model lines.

Hope i was helpful

[phyland]

Thanks for the feed back Simtech. I did end up using a duct connector for the connector.
I'm not sure whether to fix the length to a max. 6m (the max deliverable we get in Aus) or just let them be stretched to the required length.
I decided to make individual families for types as I think this is the easiest way to get take offs. I'm trying to make some fittings at the moment, when time allows, I'll post them when they're finished.
cheers pth

[USMCBody]

looks very impressive. I would say that if it were me I would dumb it down a bit. The less there is the easier it is to regen.

My disclammer for all the info below is that I haven't done any of this yet when it comes to making the ladder rack. I'm kind of saving ladder rack for last as it seems to be something that will be hard to make.

I'll say that I planned on repurposing a ducting system and resizeing it to the basic shape. It wouldn't look like what you have, but it would be easy to place / man handle in the model and the connections would be in place already. The same concept I did for conduit.

Basically I guess it will look like a rectangle but I'm hoping I'll be able to make it kind of the way you did except it would fall under a ducting catagory and just basic squares for the rungs and side rails... I do understand that I will have to copy an excell file concerning the possible shapes it can take and repurposed it for my needs as that is how the ducting system works.


---Some things I'm intersted in your design.---

How did you get the grips to show up?

I guess when you create an arrayed group you can then control the distance between the array and the number of times it happens?

Sorry for the questions. I'm new to Revit also.



---Some answers to your questions--- maybe..

2D representation--
If I understand it correctly to add the drafting symbol you have to have it as an Annotative symbol. Generally I create the symbol as a generic annotation and then pull the family in. But there is no reason I see why you couldn't create the same basic ladder rack as a single line and follow the same basic principle above (pull it in as a annotation family type). That would just be basically what I would do because I like to keep things a bit of plug and play so If I need to make something in a rush I have the items that work. I guess you could even draw it in the family instead of nesting it and convert the lines to symbolic so they only show in the view you drew the in. If nothing else you could just adjust the visual settings of the lines so they work correctly. The catch here is that I don't know how it will handle the annotative elemant or the symbolic lines when it is set to scale it. Hopefully there is a way to make sure that it will not scale the 'drafting symbol' you make or at leaset get an understanding of how it scales so and be able to tie into the process some how...


the visual settings questions (showing in eleveation, type of detail)--
click on the items in question in the family editor and click on the visibility settings. You can have them display in various detail levels and views. It would seem that what shows in 3D is a bit hard coded. I think only the Annotation symbols and I guess also the symblic lines are set to not show in 3d view.

There are some defalt setting when it comes to what scales will default at what scales. Manage>settings>detail level

in the parametric modeling area--
When you say:
"-I thought I would be able to change the rail profile in one common family by adding a family type with a parameter <family type>-profile for the profile used to create the sweep ie nema12 rail profile. I can get the dimensioned planes to move to suit the selected family but can't get the instance of the rail profile to change by setting the <family type>-profile parameter. I can manually change the rail profile in the instance within the family. I think my problem here is how to label the sweep so as it is available as a parameter."

I'm a bit confused at what your saying. I think a part of the puzzle is that it sounds like you want something to happen in the instance but it will only show up in the type. It sounds like the problem is that you have an instance parameter that is referencing a type parameter. The type parameter is only made for the type and can only change when you make a new type...



Hopefully this is a boost to what your doing as it looks like we are all very happy someone has the chance to fool around with it... B-)

[phyland]

Thanks for the input USMCBody
I've pasted the info into a text file for reference.

I got the array of rungs by dividing the length parameter (minus half the spacing) by the spacing and using the returned value as the array number parameter. There;s a good example in revits family help file.

I'm not 100% but I assume the grips are generated from the reference planes used to control the length / width parameters of the instance.

Your pointer about family specific parameters in an instance is spot on. My original thinking was I could control everything in a "global" family and set parameters for the sub-type, in my case changing the rail profile in an instance for a different NEMA size.
After reading a few blogs and posts I've moved away from this to individual families per type.
cheers

[phyland]

Very helpful thanks
pth

[USMCBody]

I do just want to clarify a bit to take what I said with a grain of salt. I'm not totally sure everything I said was true or not. Granted I would say that most of it is good info, but some of it is a guess. I do apologize because I normally don't post guesses, but it would seem that no one else had answers and I wanted to help you and all of us along.

My other disclaimer here is that I'm not that good with Revit to really make good guesses. the case in point is that when I said that Revit looked outside at an excel file for sizing information I believe I was partially correct. It does for Piping in some fashion but not for Ducting. It would seem that ducting is a bit more hard coded than the piping. Again the only thing I can say for sure is that, that is the way I understand it now until I learn more about it. I guess the more simplified way of saying it is I know enough to be dangerous...

[hatmen55]

Hello Guys
I have created my first cable Tray family
But my problem now is how to make it dynamic family (ladderLength, LadderWidth and Ladder Height) and than I can adjust them
Pleaze help me