Arch background & "draw order"

[DaveDH]

How do you get the linked architectural model to print in the background where it belongs? We have been trying everything to try to get the room tags, gridlines, and other architectural objects to print BEHIND our ductwork and other mechanical equipment, but invariably the arch. objects will print on top of the MEP objects and obscure them. Even if they are half-tone and transparent. This is especially a problem if the edge of an architectural feature happens to coincide with the edge of a piece of equipment or length of duct. It makes for unprofessional looking documents.

This is not just a printing issue. You can see this in the views as well. Also, our annotation is always on top. It's just objects that behave this way.

Has anyone else run into this problem and solved it, I hope?

[mwiggins]

There is no control currently.

[jbaumann]

How do you get the linked architectural model to print in the background where it belongs? We have been trying everything to try to get the room tags, gridlines, and other architectural objects to print BEHIND our ductwork and other mechanical equipment, but invariably the arch. objects will print on top of the MEP objects and obscure them. Even if they are half-tone and transparent. This is especially a problem if the edge of an architectural feature happens to coincide with the edge of a piece of equipment or length of duct. It makes for unprofessional looking documents.

This is not just a printing issue. You can see this in the views as well. Also, our annotation is always on top. It's just objects that behave this way.

Has anyone else run into this problem and solved it, I hope?

Typically ductwork and other MEP items are heavier line weights and stand out when printed. Our construction documents look very similar to our AutoCAD output.

I have attached a screen shot of a mechanical floor plan. Are you hoping to see all elements from the link hidden underneath ductwork and piping? Can you post a screen shot of what it is you are experiencing that you don't like?

[DaveDH]

I was wrong about seeing the the background on top of the HVAC objects in the views (except for grids & room#'s). If you look at the attached screenshot you'll see how the grid line running from the top to bottom of the screen is on top of the edge of the duct. Then if you see how the duct is lined up with the edge of the wall you'll see how it's showing the wall under the duct. However when it prints the greyed out wall prints on top of the duct line work. Of course, normally ductwork doesn't line up on top of a wall, however there can be a jumble of arch features that do coincide or cross lines of ductwork. While most of the time this hardly matters with regard to clarity, it does make a poor looking document.

(BTW, the duct lines are thin in this screenshot because they're existing.)

After experimenting some more we found that if you print using raster processing instead of vector, it doesn't do this. The problem with raster processing is that it takes longer and some linework, especially imported linework, doesn't print right. So to you end up having to set up two different print options and break up your sheet set depending on what's on each sheet, which, naturally, is a pain.

[jbaumann]

The problem with raster processing is that it takes longer and some linework, especially imported linework, doesn't print right. So to you end up having to set up two different print options and break up your sheet set depending on what's on each sheet, which, naturally, is a pain.

We print everything with the raster setting selected. We have converted all details, legends, etc. to Revit geometry so we don't experience any printing display problems using raster.

[ray.205827]

After dimensioning, plotting printing has to be the bane of everyone's life. The older folks among our audience might get this: (read with a thick German Accent, shmoking and wearing a helmet, peering through the potted palm fronds) (Plotting is) "Very interesting, but stoopid! Say goodnight Dick."

[DaveDH]

Here is an update . . .

So I spent some time trying to optimize the output by experimenting with vector vs raster processing. For linework, vector processing is, by far, of a higher quality . . . except for the "draw order" problem. See the two attachments to see the difference. Looking at the image taken from the vector processed pdf you can see how the lines are sharp and smooth, but the gray background prints on top. Looking at the raster processed image you can see the pixelation but the background prints in the back like it's supposed to.

And that raster processed image is at medium quality printing. I tried both high and presentation quality and it was worse, so bad that lines started disappearing. (that's probably due to smoothing or something) So it looks like what we'll have to do is print using raster/medium/grayscale printing, at least for pdf's.

Another thing I noticed is that even with raster processing, gridlines and room tags still printed on top of everything.

I really, really wish there was a way to make vector processing work, though . . . it looks so much cleaner.

[mattw]

LINE MERGE comes to mind. Do you have it turned on or off?

If it's off, you'll get (in some cases, not necessarily all) what you see with the half-tone lines "on top".

Something to look at.

[DaveDH]

Where is the line merge option? I can't find it . . .

[mattw]

Where is the line merge option? I can't find it . . .

Check your printer's settings.