RAC 2009 - Creating cutting element for a sink

[designviz]

We have created a family for a counter-mounted sink and included a void element to automatically cut the counter. What is odd when placed on a wall surface by accident it was noticed that the void/holes are cut as desired. However, when placed on an actual counter top they are not.

Why the difference? What is so special about walls?

Is there anyway to get a void element to cut the surface/face on which it is placed?

[Andre Carvalho]

Is the void a separated family that was nested into the counter family or is it part of the counter family? If it is part of the counter AND is cut the counter, then it should show the counter cut when loaded to the project.

Unless the counter is a wall hosted family and the void is somehow set to cut the wall in the family. Then maybe some parameter to locate the void is not working properly and therefore moving the void away from the counter and inside the wall.

Andre Carvalho

[designviz]

Huh? I have attached the family herein. If I understand your question correctly the void is a separated family. In other words the void resides in the same family as the sink itself and not in not in the family with the counter. The hope of course being any solid on which the sink would then be placed would automatically get cut accordingly. Of course that may be a foolish hope...

[Scott Womack]

In other words the void resides in the same family as the sink itself and not in not in the family with the counter. The hope of course being any solid on which the sink would then be placed would automatically get cut accordingly. Of course that may be a foolish hope...

If the sink is a face-hosted family, then the void can be set to cut what ever "face" the sink is placed on. Not sure about the process, but it appears that it might be doable.

[Munkholm]

Wouldn´t call it a foolish hope, as one could hope for it too... but unfortunatly, the family needs to be faced based, in order to get it to cut the host.

Instead of trying to cut the casework below the sink, try modifying your casework, and have a "yes/no" instance parameter make the cutout in the casework instead... at least that´s how i´m getting around it... my kitchen units all have an instance parameter "Cut Hole For Sink", which partially removes the top of the unit.
Using this method, will also display the graphics in error, if you are to put in a 80 cm sink, in a 60 cm unit....

[designviz]

Munkholm,

We initially went down this road to avoid having to have two phiscally separate counter top families like the delivered Revit content or what you describe. The simple reason being that it then requires changing the hole for each different size sink unit. If it were actually part of the sink family it would be easier to mofify it accordingly there, and would be much more flexible and versitile.

Scott,

This was created as a face based family, however, I am now wondering just how deep (pun intended) this face goes. In otherwords perhaps it is cutting the top surface of the counter, but not the entire counter top solid. And/or perhaps it depends on how the counter top extrusion itself is being constructed... that is the extrusion profile is based on the right edge and then extruded along the length as oposed to be based on the top surface and extruded down... I just did a test though and that did not seem to make a difference. Any other ideas?

[Munkholm]

We initially went down this road to avoid having to have two phiscally separate counter top families like the delivered Revit content or what you describe. The simple reason being that it then requires changing the hole for each different size sink unit.

I´m not sure how these kitchen units for sinks are actually build in your part of the world. But most manufacturs here in Denmark, actually removes the entire top plate, and replace it by a thin metal piece in the front, to keep the unit stable... So I just need to make sure that a 3" sink, won´t be placed in a 2" Unit (Which I would never do in real life either)

Basicly, I try to model and plan my families, to suit the "real" world counterparts.

Now, if in real life, you would get out the jigsaw, and cut a hole in the top plate in the unit, I totally get your point ! But maybe, you should adopt my way anyhow

[patricks]

I´m not sure how these kitchen units for sinks are actually build in your part of the world. But most manufacturs here in Denmark, actually removes the entire top plate, and replace it by a thin metal piece in the front, to keep the unit stable... So I just need to make sure that a 3" sink, won´t be placed in a 2" Unit (Which I would never do in real life either)

Basicly, I try to model and plan my families, to suit the "real" world counterparts.

Now, if in real life, you would get out the jigsaw, and cut a hole in the top plate in the unit, I totally get your point ! But maybe, you should adopt my way anyhow

Yeah, almost all sink units in the US are placed in counters by cutting a hole out of the countertop, unless the sink is one of those "farm house" type units that extends out past the edge of the counter with an exposed front panel.

[designviz]

Also, I wanted to mention if we are considering some of the ultimate benefits of BIM, the hope is to reduce the amount of field work and one day have items like this made in the shop and then simply placed in the field, in which case, the way I wanted to model this would be true to the real world. I realize we are not quite there yet, but we are getting there, and we need to continue to strive in this direction...

[patricks]

Aren't most counter tops made in a shop and then installed at the building site?

And sure we can model would "should be" correct, but there always has to be field measurements taken and adjustments made before the piece is fabricated in the shop, because there's nothing that says the walls around the counter top will be installed in the right place that you showed on your drawing or in your Revit model, or if the walls will be plumb, square, etc.