Detail components casting shadows

[Gadget Man]

Hi All,

I have this problem: I was requested to include sliding arrows in windows elevation views (see picture 1 below) together with some text (FG - to annotate fixed glass panel). The bottom arrow (in the attached picture) and FG text are controllable by visibility parameter (sometimes I need one, sometimes the other).

The question is: why in the world the arrows, which are 2D detail components positioned on the FACES of the corresponding panels, cast shadows (when in shadow view mode)? (see picture 2)

Is there a way to make them not to?

When I analyse this view I also notice the difference in depth of the shadows they cast, as if they both were on some plane - in front and away from their corresponding (stepped - see picture 3) panels. Yet, while inserting them in the family, I specified the glass panels as the face...

Am I missing something?

[Gadget Man]

To extend this topic, even when the 2D detail component is transparent it still casts shadows while not showing its pattern...

In the attached picture below I combined screen shots from both the Family Editor and the Project. The window with the detail component in project doesn't even show the filled region but it displays unwanted shadow! At the same time, the same detail component loaded directly into project shows correctly - the pattern is visible and there is no shadow.

I tested this using both detail and model patterns - makes no difference.

When (inside the family) the detail component is NOT set to "draw in foreground" admittedly the shadow is much smaller (virtually not there) but the pattern isn't visible anyway.

Any workarounds?

P.S. As you may have noticed, I already abandoned the idea of black filled arrows from my previous post. It's not what they wanted, but with the shadows is simply unacceptable... Funny though, why filled regions cast shadows while other detail components (lines) not...

[DoTheBIM]

I concur... I see this behavior too. It's casting a shadow on the non-transparent opening (1st pic). Funny though... changing the workplane of the detail component has no effect on how the shadow is cast.

I was thinking a dense diagonal hatch pattern would work... but no love there either. Setting the filled region to transparent didn't work either and made the behavior even wierder (3rd pic)

Guess it's back to the old days by making lots of lines...(4th pic)

[Alfredo Medina]

I made a test, making the arrow as a detail component with a filled region, nesting it in a sliding window family, placing it on a work plane, which was the face of the glass.

Now, if in the window family I select the nested arrow, and I set 'Draw in Foreground' to be ON, load into project, then the arrow displays a shadow. Correspondingly, when that parameter is OFF, the arrow does not display any shadow.

See illustration.

[cliff collins]

Alfredo comes thru as ususal!

Nice explanation--that one was a bit odd.

cheers

[DoTheBIM]

Yes, very nice. Explains a lot about the behavior.

[Alfredo Medina]

It makes sense. In this other illustration, the sliding window is shown in plan view, and the nested arrow, made with a filled region, is represented by a red line. When the arrow is set to be drawn on the foreground, it places itself at the outermost face of the window (depending on the view I am in). In this example, the face marked as "foreground" is where the arrow would be if 'Draw in Foreground' is ON. Therefore, if I am looking at this window from a South Elevation, the filled region, being a face, away from the glass, will cast shadows.

[Gadget Man]

OK, thank you everybody for your responses.

I came to the same conclusion (in my second post).

True, I didn't check placing not on the foreground in case of my arrows, however in my second post, as I mentioned, I turned this option off and indeed got rid of the shadows.

But the hatch pattern still doesn't show!

Maybe in case of a solid black fill it does show but in case of a transparent non-solid fill it doesn't...

Still, it doesn't explain why a transparent detail fill should cast any shadow on anything in the first place...

[Alfredo Medina]

But the hatch pattern still doesn't show!...

I see your points. Yes, an arrow with a transparent non-filled hatch pattern in a filled region does not show the hatch in an elevation view of the window. The only way the transparent arrow will show the pattern is if the view is set to wireframe. I don't know the reason why this happens. However, I see that an opaque non-solid filled region displays correctly. Will that make a difference?

[Gadget Man]

... I see that an opaque non-solid filled region displays correctly. Will that make a difference?

Thank you Alfredo for your help.

That is very interesting observation. So, in short, to make a detail hatch pattern show, it has to be opaque and to eliminate shadows it must be placed on the face/workplane with the option "Draw in Foreground" turned OFF.

Well, I'll have a look if the opaque fill region will "hold the water" because I still wanted to introduce yet another different filled region on top of it... The reason for it is that some windows have obscured (frosted) glass and we want to show them with dotted hatch pattern in the elevations while some have grey glass and we want to show them with a different hatch. Yet, some of them will have both at the same time, so they should display both of these hatches together...

Yes, I know, I can make a separate hatch pattern combining both of these hatches and use simple yes/no controll to select which option I want to use but all of them have to show the opening arrow too, so they would have to be drawn behind it... It's all possible, I know, but it introduces a ton of unnecessary work with these workarounds, multiplied by many different window styles!

At the end of the day, I think I will create different glass materials including in them different transparent model surface patterns and controll them by yes/no parameter... Still unnecessary work if only transparent detail components worked correctly...