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Thread: Adjustable Fillet

  1. #1
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    Default Adjustable Fillet

    Hi everyone,

    Could anyone help me with this problem I just can't seen to find a solution for? I've tried a lot of things but just can't seem to make it work how I want. I've attached an image (Adjustible Fillet.jpg) of the basic set-up I'm trying to achieve, and attached a copy of the Family too. It's not the actual family I'm trying to create, but if I can get a version of this family that works, I can apply the solution to the actual family I want.

    Basically I have an extrusion (as part of a Generic Model) with an angled slope in an adjustable position with a radiused fillet applied to it. However, any change to the slopes position, it's angle or the radius either results in "constraints not satisfied", strange results (Fail 1.jpg) or (more frequently) both. What I want is for the model to hold together with all 4 variables (d1,d2,a1 and r1) being fully adjustible. Is this possible? It seems it should be, its not the most complex thing I've ever seen. But it seems it tries to resolve the variables in the wrong order most of the time (I'm not sure how Revit thinks, but that's the impression I get). What seems to happen most of the time is the radius adjusts first, tearing the lines from their reference planes.

    As I said, I've tried a number of solutions to this problem, with offset reference planes etc, to try get around this issue but so far no success. So I've attached the most basic version of the set-up in the hope someone can provide some insperation.

    Thanks,

    Dale
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  2. #2
    All AUGI, all the time ajayholland's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    Do all these parameters need to be adjustable?
    You might try constraining the center of the fillet radius with dimensions and some trigonometric formulas to move it where you want it to be.
    That's just an intuitive guess.
    Good luck!

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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    I've attached a revised version. I replaced the reference plane with a reference line. Revit 's developers created a reference line because the planes don't respect angular constraints, not the "spring point" or origin of the angle. This version seems to tolerate the angle changing but retaining the fillet radius.

    Revit does tend to constrain arc relationship orthogonally though, so what AJ wrote is also a factor at times.
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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    Thank you,

    Both those proved responces proved helpful, but not definitive unfortunately (If you adjust the angle given in Steve's sample family to 80 degrees, you can see the issue). I tried playing around with trigonometry and attempting to constrain the centre of the fillet's radius in the orthogonal directions, but unfortunately as soon as all the constraints were in place, it complained about being overconstrained. I could make various parts of it work, but the final locking into place was always an overconstrain. The only solution I could come up with was pretty obscure. I've had to produce a kink in my extrustion, which is then trimmed by a circular void. This seems needlessly obtuse if this is the only viable solution.

    I've spent quite a while trying to learn how to make families in Revit, admittidely having to self teach myself most of it, but I generally find the whole thing very frustrating. It always seems you're fighting to make Revit behave how you'd expect it behave than trying to use it's features, if that makes sence. It seems to go out of it's way to be as easy to break as possible, with every solution requiring an obscure work-around of some kind. It is just me who feels like this, due to the lack of formal training? If so, are there any good books/online resources that could help me learn how it thinks?

    Thanks again,

    Dale
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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    Hypothetical problems like this are often harder to solve the actual problems because the expectation to change "anything" means the rules aren't as clear. When I tested I didn't try an extreme angle. The closer that form gets to 90 degrees the more likely Revit will "break" trying to make it. If the top side had the same leg as the bottom right side it would be a bit more stable perhaps.

    The issue that is causing the kink is Automatic Sketch Dimensions. I looked to see what Revit was creating with them before but only saw the ones keeping the end of the Reference Line in place. When I mess with the angle more the others pop out.

    Revit is trying to figure out where the ends of the lines should start and stop orthogonally. See the image. That's how the kink develops. The endpoints of the lines are taking greater precedence with Revit than the arc itself. The trick, which I don't have time right now to find, is to help Revit make a better choice for controlling the endpoints.

    Automatic Sketch Dimensions are off by default in Family Editor Views, you can turn them on via Visibility/Graphics > Annotation tab.

    There is a a family editor book for 2010 that just got an update for 2012 available from CTC. Don't know if it will help you avoid this issue specifically but it might.
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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    Okay, played a bit more with this. As I wrote in the earlier reply the endpoints of the lines that are tangent to the arc are the part that Revit is constraining with Automatic Sketch Dimensions. Getting rid of them is done by providing a clear constraint to govern what they should be referencing. The attached file is revised to work. I'm not a math guy so the solution is clumsy. I suspect there is a more elegant way. I focused on using the angles and providing reference lines that could define where the ends of the arc should always be, this means the end points of the lines can end there too.

    The void approach you settled on is "simpler" because the lines of the solid never have to worry about where to finish. The void circle is easy to constrain because it isn't dealing with a partial arc, just the center of the void and the desired radius. HTH
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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    That's great, thank you. Took a little while to work out what was going on in certain places, but rather than the lack of maths being an issue, I think it's the biggest help. The family I'm trying to create has this situation occuring in four places, and the void based solution I had has so many trigonomtric variables it's gotten silly.

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    Default Re: Adjustable Fillet

    I don't know if this helps but I had some fillet issues before. I came upon this thread -> http://forums.augi.com/showthread.ph...ometry-Problem The solutions there weren't perfect but thanks to this page -> http://bimandbeam.typepad.com/bim_be...-modeling.html I now can control my fillets in my families (i used it for rebar detail components to control the bend radius for angled rebars).

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    Thumbs up Re: Adjustable Fillet

    Quote Originally Posted by joopvandentillaart749713 View Post
    thanks to this page -> I now can control my fillets in my families
    Thanks a million! I can't say how grateful I am. I've been struggling with this problem for years – and this works like a charm!

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