Data Shortcutting Profiles

[SweetChilly07]

Hi there,

I have an Existing Ground Profile and a Design Ground Profile from one Alignment (Alignment A) in one drawing and I want the profile to show in another drawing.

So in my second drawing I have data shortcutted my alignment, but when I try to create reference to both those profiles, it keeps creating a whole new alignment, but keeps adding numbers to the end of the new alignment (Alignment A (6)). I don't want it to create new alignments. I want it to keep the one I already have referenced.

How do I go about doing this?

Plus I have to create different profile views for each profile when it's all the same alignment... I'm a student and not sure how to do this.

[MatthewHeal83]

If you are a student then you are likely running Civil 3D 2011, correct?

You should be able to creating data shortcuts for your alignments and profiles, so in your example you would have 3 data shortcuts, one for the alignment, and one each (2) for the profiles.
In your reference drawing, you will add the alignment and associated profiles to the drawing, and then create a profile view of the alignment to show the profiles. It should not be creating a new alignment, unless you are trying to attach the reference multiple times or are copying the objects, when you copy a Civil 3D object it adds a (1) to the end of the object name, so if you copy again and again and again you could have something like "Alignment - 6 (1) (1) (1) (1)", it does this because no two objects can have the same name in a project because data shortcuts can operate by either "Object Name" or "Object Handle" (Handle being a system generated alphanumeric ID), so two objects with the same name in one data shortcut project would confuse the system.

The (6) you are talking about could be the Civil 3D template applying the new alignment naming convention to your alignment. You can set the default naming convention for objects to include the object name plus a "next" counter, so the program will keep track of the number of objects of that type you have already created in the drawing. For example, if you have created (and maybe deleted) a few alignments already, say 5 alignments, and you make a new one that is using the default "next" counter, you would have [Alignment A]<---{ Defined by you } (6)<----{ defined by the template next counter } as the name, unless you deleted the next counter in the dialogue box when you created the object.

But if you are using the data shortcuts correctly it doesn't add any extra digits to the name, it just imports them exactly as they were exported. Hope this helped a bit

[mike.rogerson653589]

Ran into the same problem...

I have two drawings, one with the alignments and a second with a reference to those alignments, a reference to a surface and I've created surface profiles in it.

In a third drawing, I've created a reference to the alignment (from DWG #1), then created a reference to the surface profile (from DWG #2), I'm seeing the same thing as you: "Alignment" and "Alignment (1)". The profile only exists under "Alignment (1)", not the original.

I think what it's doing is pulling in the referenced alignment in your drawing with the profiles and treating it as if it's a different alignment, so you are indeed seeing a new alignment coming in with the profile you are referencing. The original alignment has no profile under it when you create the profile reference, only the new one does.

The solution? Had to create the EG profiles in the same drawing that the original alignments were coming from. The implications are messy... I'm not even sure what to do with my FG profiles, as I'm doing all that in another drawing with the corridor model I'm building. I'm assuming the same will happen. *Sigh*

G'Luck!

[mike.monical]

I am dealing with the exact issue with C3D 2012.

I have a series of existing sheets with Data Referanced (Dref) alignments. I showed EG profiles with them. I am now ready to add design profiles which went well in the design file. However, when I dref them into the existing sheets, they always create a new instance of the alignment definition with a suffix (1). There appears to be no easy way to add the new design profile to the existing Profile view.

The fix for this appears to be to delete the existing data references & profile views and then import the profile reference and recreate the profile view. This will create a unique reference to the alignment. In doing so you lose any customization you completed on the original aligment such as labling.

This is very undesirable as I would like to be able to add dref design profiles to existing Profiles Views. I consider it a glitch in the software and contrary to common sense.

My discussion with tech support indicates this is a "feature", apparently to protect me from making a mistake. He recommended I change my workflow to comply with the constraint.

My questions are:
1. Is this indeed a "feature" for which there is no workaround?
2. Is there something about my workflow or procedure creating this issue and that it should be possible to do what we would like to?
3. Are there other work arounds?


I do not recall this behavior from earlier versions.

[mjfarrell]

I can't see why you are not selecting the profile view when prompted to create the design profile in?
Or is there something I'm not seeing in the text of your posts?

Create Profile: select the profile view....how is that not working for you?

Also why is the design profile not being created in the same file as the original alignment and profile?
I can't see that seperating these two pieces of information is good work flow.

I just ran a test of this in 2012 and it did not append any numbers to the alignments or profiles I data referenced into the new file.

[mike.monical]

Thanks for the quick reply Michael, I am thinking have I have some issues with the drawing or procedures.

The design profiles were created in the original alignment and profile drawing. There was no problem with that.

It is when I go to add the design profile dref to an existing sheet with existing data refs in it that the issue manifests itself.

Specifically, I have a sheet with a dref alignment in it and a dref existing ground profile. When I attempt to add the dref of the design profile in, it creates a new instance of the aligment and a profile which is not created in a profile view. Adding it to an existing profile is never an option.

Is there an explaination for this behavior in your experience? Has it always been this way?

Mike Monical

[mjfarrell]

OK, let's see if I have this straight....

The design alignment and profile are being done in the same file as the existing profile is created in.
Then you create a data shortcut to offer this data for use in other files.

Then you create sheets that somehow lack your design data in the profile views.
Qusetion is why are you creating sheets from profile views that do not have all the proper data in them?

Then you attempt to add the design data to the profile view(s) that the sheets are using it adds an instance of the parent alignment.

Why are you not simply including the option to DRAW the dessign profile in the profile view when you create it?
If you data shortcut ALL the profiles into your file, you can then CHOOSE which profiles are displayed in the profile view at the time you create it, the same way one chooses which pipe networks or portions thereof are drawn in the profile view at the time it is created.

Perhaps you need to bundle up your data and send me a copy so I can see exactly what you are doing.
I can provide FTP space or a dropbox account for this purpose.

[mike.monical]

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I would be happy to have to you take a look at it, I have already shipped it off to AutoDesk.

However I do not want any wild goose chases. I am beginning to suspect that what I want is not possible. I suppose I should set up a dummy project to test for other similiar cases and instances. I am hoping to find a definitive answer that is possible and my data is jacked or it is not possible and to quite wasting time. I would also be curious as to the ways and wherefors of what seems to me to be a straight forward procedure.

It appears to be a timing issue. I would like to add design profiles to sheets with data references AFTER they are created. As best I can tell this cannot be done.

The following is my procedure:

Problem:

Data referencing a Design Profile creates a duplicate alignment reference with a (1) suffix, adds a duplicate alignment to the drawing on top of an existing, and does not add the Dref Design Profile to the existing Design View or allow it to be added.

The Design Profile data reference can only be added to a new and separate profile view.

Expected behavior.

Data referencing a Design Profile view of an alignment should attached itself to an existing data reference (or at least provide that option) of the alignment and not create a duplicate. It should allow itself to be added to existing Profile Views.

Steps to create:
1. Receive topo drawing from survey with surface and boundaries. X-Topo
2. Draw Alignments (Siding A) X-Engr
3. Create Surface and Alignment data references (Siding A) from X-Topo and X-Engr
4. Prepare Sheet, create Mviews for plan and profile X-Title -> Sheet A
5. Xref Topo into Sheet A
6. Data Reference Surface and alignment (Siding A) into Sheet A
7. Create profile view of existing grade in Sheet A
8. Create labeling for horizontal design. In Sheet A
9. Submit for 30% review. to client and BNSF
10. Upon approval of Horizontal Design, start Vertical Design.
Create Design Profile in design file in X-Engr
11. Create Design Profile Data Reference. from X-Engr
12. Attempt to Data Reference the Design Profile into the Sheet drawing. Sheet A
a. * Creates duplicate alignment with (1) suffix in Prospector
b. * Draws duplicate alignment on to of existing alignment
c. * Does NOT add Design Profile to existing Profile View.
d. * Design Profile data reference CANNOT be added to existing Profile View

To me this is counter intuitive. There should be no reason the data reference could not find the original alignment dref, recognize it and attach the new data to it.

The work around I was able to find is simply to blow away your original aligment Dref (and all the labling work that went with it) and create a new data reference.

I would be curious to know if this applies in all cases or if I will later be able to add, w/o recreating, additional Drefs to the Profile View.

Another work around would be to accept the duplicate alignments, make them as empty as possible with all with all irrelevent layers turned off and just overlay the profile. This seems very inelegant.

Was there any trick to getting images to upload? I have been unsuccessful with loading .jpgs.

Mike

[mjfarrell]

Two things, why are you creating sheets before the design profile is read to go into them?

Secondly the NEW forum image and file attachment has issues, I have found that I need to switch modes to
force it to allow any attachment. (Moderator can we get someone to look into the attachment issues.)

Let me see If I can reproduce your symptoms here. And feel free to send me your file(s)

[mjfarrell]

OK, I just ran this test...

I made a view Frame Group
I made Sheets
I included all existing Data References
It made sheets no problem

I went back into the original file Create a NEW Profile in the existing profile view
I then create a data shortcut for that new profile

I opened one of the Sheet files through SSM, browsed down to the the New Profile I created a few steps above,
Rt-Clicked and created a reference for the New Profile, it popped into the profile view for the sheet.
It did not create any extra alignments or anything extra in my file.

short form, I can not either reproduce your error, Or I'm still doing something you are not, or you are doing something I am not.

Let me review your long form post above.....