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Thread: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

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    Default Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    We just jumped ships to ADT2005 (formerly MicroStation). Would like to get "color-lineweight" standards off to a good start.

    Is there a recognized color-lineweight standard that works well with the default colors of ADT objects? And works well with everyone else (architects, consultants, etc). Does anyone have a .ctb file they could share?

    Thanks, Jeff
    jeff@childreyrobinson.com

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    Lord&Master of Space&time Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    hmmm...

    I'm not sure, but my impression is that everyone went to style based defs. a while ago. I prefer these (we used to have color based before) over color because you have greater flexability. With color based, you're stuck with the colors you are using for that objects layer. The other reason I prefer style based is because of the myriad of layers assigned to any one particular object, such as walls.

    Otherwise, you could look at the files that comeout of the box for ADT. I've used reprographics services before & they used color based styles (which was really irritating because I was using style based & it screwed all the lineweights up), so you could try contacting a local repro store for guidelines.
    Steve Bennett |CAD Manager
    Moffatt & Nichol | Adventures in BIM

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    If you have no baggage from previous ADT or AutoCAD setups, why not use one of the out-of-the-box plot styles that ship with ADT. They are designed to work with the out-of-the-box content, which is based on the US National CAD Standard.
    David Koch

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    The National CAD Standards has color tables set up for line weights, but ADT in the box contains those same tables.

    However, the other two respondents are correct, in that ADT is going the way of styles. If you use all the ADT features, there is no need to rely on color tables for proper lineweight.

    I have been using ADT 2005 for about 8 months, and I can't recall using a single element in any drawing that was not an ADT object, other than our title block sheets.

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    I brought this subject up a few months ago and it was treated like a big surprise and a secret. I had to research the web and find color lists that are from the AIA standards which ADT objects come in on. (The AIA wants to sell you that list with their book that costs a lot.) I found some lists on web search engines. I tried using the AIA ctb with the objects by style and some sketching by lineweight. They came in looking like children's drawings, huge lines, no style. I reworked all the lineweights and added a few more subtle lineweights.
    Some of us actually draw schematic drawings or presentation drawings before we know what our project will look like. Out of the box looks like ****. I am trying to set-up new standards at our office and find the only way to make these drawings look attractive is to change every object's display to by layer and put them on different layers to get a hand-drawn proper 'Architect look'.
    How do you do those sketches in ADT? This is very frustrating. What am I doing wrong? We find doing everything ADT impossible and complicated. I draw plans in ADT and use detail components, and even then I can't find the proper sizes of structural members, etc.

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    Lord&Master of Space&time Steve_Bennett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblock
    I brought this subject up a few months ago and it was treated like a big surprise and a secret. I had to research the web and find color lists that are from the AIA standards which ADT objects come in on. (The AIA wants to sell you that list with their book that costs a lot.) I found some lists on web search engines. I tried using the AIA ctb with the objects by style and some sketching by lineweight. They came in looking like children's drawings, huge lines, no style. I reworked all the lineweights and added a few more subtle lineweights.
    Some of us actually draw schematic drawings or presentation drawings before we know what our project will look like. Out of the box looks like ****. I am trying to set-up new standards at our office and find the only way to make these drawings look attractive is to change every object's display to by layer and put them on different layers to get a hand-drawn proper 'Architect look'.
    How do you do those sketches in ADT? This is very frustrating. What am I doing wrong? We find doing everything ADT impossible and complicated. I draw plans in ADT and use detail components, and even then I can't find the proper sizes of structural members, etc.
    So... What was your question??

    Or are you just venting??
    Steve Bennett |CAD Manager
    Moffatt & Nichol | Adventures in BIM

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    I may be asking for too much here, but we just started ADT 2005 and to tell you the truth, I am lost. I have been AutoCad plain since R10, but I have never ventured into ADT world until now. I have been 'playing with it for a little while now, and other then some of the real indepth, sheet sets, constructs and so on, I am getting a little handle on the nature.

    Previously, we used ctb plot styles for our drawings and assigned the colors to layers that were created for our office only. With ADT 2005, it seems that we are going to stick with their laying guidelines since everything is placed on a layer when you draw it, like walls, windows and etc... instead of trying to create our own due to the fact that it would be very time consuming and difficult for first time users. Anyway, after starting with the titleblock layout for our company, I noticed that I didn't know what each of the layer names stood for or what should be placed on what layer. I have a copy of Graphic Standards, but it doesn't cover every layer that I see in ADT. My question is this: Is there a list of descriptions that tell what each layer name reps and what should be placed on it? I can't seem to find one for ADT, so I thought I would ask someone here. Thanks

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    The following assumes you are using ADT2004 or ADT2005 [the original poster was]. Let us know if that is not the case.

    The US National CAD Standard [Version 2] does not set specific colors for specific layers. What it does do is include the Tri-Service Plotting Guidelines, which assigns a plot color and lineweight to each NCS Color Number [which, by coincidence, happen to correspond directly with AutoCAD/ADT's color numbers]. Colors 1-19 are black or halftone, in varying lineweights ranging from 0.18 mm through 2.00 mm, which are the lineweights prescribed by the Uniform Drawing System [also a part of the US National CAD Standard]. Colors 20-249 are grouped in bunches of 10, cycling through the same lineweight pattern and alternating between a color [20-29 are "Rust"] and Black/Halftone. ADT's development team started with this framework, then chose a color for each layer or object component, based on the lineweight the Tri-Service Plotting Guidelines assigned to that color and the object/component under consideration.

    "I tried using the AIA ctb with the objects by style and some sketching by lineweight. "

    Care to elaborate on your process? What objects are you using for your sketches? ADT objects or AutoCAD objects? There is no "AIA.ctb" file. If you are using the "AIA LWT by Object.ctb" file, then the lineweight is not assigned by the color-dependent plot style, but is assigned in the drawing file. How you choose to do that is up to you. Each layer can be assigned a lineweight and the objects set to ByLayer or you can assign a lineweight to each object. For ADT objects that have components, you can assign lineweights to the components in the display settings for that object, either explicitly, ByBlock or ByLayer. If your sketches plotted cartoon-like, with very wide lines, you must have assigned very wide lineweights to your objects/layers [or else you think 0.18 mm is wide]. For what it is worth, I would recommend using named plot styles, rather than color-dependent ones.

    "I am trying to set-up new standards at our office and find the only way to make these drawings look attractive is to change every object's display to by layer and put them on different layers to get a hand-drawn proper 'Architect look'. "

    Not at all true. Again, what object types are you using? You can certainly control lineweight using layers, but it is not necessary. Where to make the changes to get the lineweights you want depends upon how your plot style [CTB or STB] is set up. If explicit lineweights are specified in the plot style file, those will be used and any settings in the drawing will be ignored. If the plot style is set to use the object's lineweight, then the drawing settings will control and you can specify the lineweight ByBlock [use parent object's lineweight], ByLayer [use object's layer's lineweight] or by specifying an explicit lineweight. Note also that there is a default lineweight that is set for the entire drawing, and this is used if the controlling source [object, parent object or layer] is set to "Default".

    "How do you do those sketches in ADT?"

    If you are using ADT objects, do you have a Layer Key Style set? That will place the out-of-the-box content on the "recommended" layer and will create the layer with the "recommended" settings if it does not already exist in the drawing. The AIA (256 Color) Layer Key Style is designed to work with the "AIA" plot styles and conform to the US National CAD Standards, Version 2.

    If you are using lines, circles, arcs, etc, then you will need to set up layers and use the correct one [unless you want to assign things directly to each object].

    "I draw plans in ADT and use detail components, and even then I can't find the proper sizes of structural members, etc."

    The Details function was integrated into ADT in ADT2004 [with stunning improvements in ADT2005]. You can draw a 2D representation of any AISC, BS4, CISC, DIN or ISI structural shape, suitable for a 2D detail, with this feature.

    The Structural Member Catalog allows you to easily create those same steel shapes, along with concrete and wood shapes, as Structural Member Styles, for use in your building model.
    David Koch

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    What Layer Key Style are you using? The AIA (256 color) Layer Key Style layer names are based on the US National CAD Standard [Version 2]. You can find out what all the various components mean by purchasing a copy of it from the National Institue of Buildings and Sciences from the following website: http://www.nationalcadstandard.org/ Be forewarned, it is not inexpensive.

    Many of the Major and Minor fields are semi-self explanatory [guess what goes on the A-Wall layer?]. The ADT Layer Manager does include a Description column all the way over on the right. If you have the AIA (256 color) Layer Key Style set active, any layers that follow the "AIA 2nd edition" Layer Standard on which that Layer Key Style is based should display an expanded description of what the layer's components mean.
    David Koch

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    Default Re: Help! Are there recognized lineweight-color standards for ADT?

    "The following assumes you are using ADT2004 or ADT2005"
    Yes, I am using 2005.

    "Colors 1-19 are black or halftone, in varying lineweights ranging from 0.18 mm through 2.00 mm, which are the lineweights prescribed by the Uniform Drawing System [also a part of the US National CAD Standard]."
    I found the range so thick, I had to change it from 0.025 to 0.7 mm to get any subtlety. Maybe it's our plotter . . .

    "Care to elaborate on your process? What objects are you using for your sketches? ADT objects or AutoCAD objects? There is no "AIA.ctb" file. If you are using the "AIA LWT by Object.ctb" file, then the lineweight is not assigned by the color-dependent plot style, but is assigned in the drawing file."
    Actually, there is an AIA standard.ctb, excuse me for my shortcut. I tried using that with the ADT objects and they came out looking awful. I invented ten line layers, 4 pattern layers and a hidden layer to comprise my basics for sketching. When I know what I'm drawing, I can use ADT objects for walls, doors, windows, columns, etc. I set-up column grids, layout grids, column bubbles, titles, symbols, reference marks in ADT.

    "Note also that there is a default lineweight that is set for the entire drawing, and this is used if the controlling source [object, parent object or layer] is set to "Default". . .
    If you are using ADT objects, do you have a Layer Key Style set? That will place the out-of-the-box content on the "recommended" layer and will create the layer with the "recommended" settings if it does not already exist in the drawing. The AIA (256 Color) Layer Key Style is designed to work with the "AIA" plot styles and conform to the US National CAD Standards, Version 2."
    I got into this business because I am an artist and a designer and I love to draw. Now, I have to get a degree in computers and ADT to draw. I find this very intimidating and when all these terms are thrown at me, I go blank.
    I set-up the drawings with 'AecLayerStdADT3' and I used the AIA Standard.ctb. I thought this was a good starting point. Of course, there is no Set-up Your Brand New Project Wizard, so I'm supposed to take time to study courses as I draw a set of plans due next month. I have to draw what I know and use some ADT mixed with AutoCAD to survive.

    "If you are using lines, circles, arcs, etc, then you will need to set up layers and use the correct one [unless you want to assign things directly to each object]."
    What are the correct layers for sketches? I have line 1 through 10 in varying thicknesses to get an elevation or plan that communicates our design. You can't use a A-Wall and A-Wind on an elevation, you need to pick and choose lineweights that work.

    "The Details function was integrated into ADT in ADT2004 ."
    Yes, so I have some limited 3-d columns (or other structural items), then I throw in a 2-d custom column. So, how do I use ADT all the way through?
    I'm sorry if I'm venting and frustrated, but I find this all so complicated and not user-friendly. Customizing a multi-view block, finding 3-d objects to finish a model, etc. is so difficult and even when I'm trying to 'go with the flow', no one seems to be able to answer my basic questions.
    How do I draw Schematically?? Everything seems to be geared to knowing exactly what the final project will look like and be built with. Who works like that? Did I miss that knowledge somewhere?

    Thank you everybody for your help. I appreciate your patience.

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