Defpoints Issues?

[TerribleTim]

I got a strange one guys. I have a machine here that is having some sort of strange issue with the defpoints layer.

Our title block has a border around it for the "printable area" that is on the defpoints layer. One of my machines, when you x-ref that title block into a new drawing, the border shows up fine. But once you save and close, then reopen, the border is not showing up. The layer is clearly not frozen or anything like that, it just isn't displaying.

Any ideas?

[irneb]

Simply put, stay away from Defpoints. Its got other issues as well. Rather make your own layer and set it to not plot, that gives the least trouble.

For quick fix, check if layer 0 is on, thawed & unlocked. If any of these 2 are set different, strange things happen!

[TerribleTim]

"0" layer is on and not frozen. In fact, every layer is on and not frozen. I checked all that first. Any other ideas? Defpoints has never been an issue for us, and we have 5 other machines that are viewing the same files without this issue. It's only the one machine.

[cadtag]

don't use defpoints. it's a 'magic' layer with programmer defined properties, wgich can change anytime the deveoper's feel like it.. Using it for anything user-generated is just asking for trouble at some point.

[TerribleTim]

So basically what you're saying is to not do what we've always done for 10+ years and don't have any problem on any of our other machines, that there is no way it is something in that one machine, it must be the layer acting strange.

That makes no sense at all, nor do we have the time to change all of our templates and update every drawing in our current projects mid-stream just to fix this one machine.

There has to be a better explenation than "Don't do that."

[cadtag]

So, what I'm hearing is that you've been lucky for ten years, working with features that were not intended, designed, or tested for end-user use, and not noticed any problems. Until one day, on one machine, it bites you.

By the same token, it's possible to drive the wrong way on the highway without hitting someone for miles. that doesn't make it a good idea. And saying you don't have time to do it right sounds like you have time to do it wrong, and continue to run into known, avoidable problems.

So don't shut down production to fix everything at once. Fix every drawing as they get opened/edited. Take an hour and fix your templates. Do everything else as it comes up.

I'm not trying to be snarky, and the first year defpoints was out it made sense to use that as the default non-plot layer. but as soon as it was possible to assign the plot/noplot property to other layers, continuing to use defpoints was a risky business.

[dgorsman]

Just a WAG given the already described "features" of the DEFPOINTS layer... is there an actual DEFPOINTS layer in the drawing that is *hosting* the XREF? I have noticed some quirkiness along those lines, where the XREF had a DEFPOINTS layer and the host drawing did not.

And another vote for moving away from DEFPOINTS. Yes it may take a while to implement, but at least make a plan for doing so.

[Tom Beauford]

Our title block has a border around it for the "printable area" that is on the defpoints layer. One of my machines, when you x-ref that title block into a new drawing, the border shows up fine. But once you save and close, then reopen, the border is not showing up. The layer is clearly not frozen or anything like that, it just isn't displaying.

Any ideas?

Try this link: http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCA...r/td-p/2614710
It even has a workaround, although I'd have to agree with everyone else that that layer is for dimensions only. Noplot layers were introduced in the 2000 version.

[irneb]

Just do a google search on "Autocad defpoints", you'll see literally hundreds (if not thousands) of forum threads (on many more forums than just AUGI / AutoDesk) pertaining to problems because of the Defpoints layer:

I've even had personal experience of objects becoming unselectable permanently (even after turning on, thawing & unlocking every single layer in the dwg). As stated, defpoints has undocumented quirks. It's "linked" to layer "0" and tends to do strange things whenever layer "0" is touched. And then sometimes these "strange" things aren't un-done when you revert back to the "normal" settings.

To make your life simpler, you could always have some lisp or such modify the drawings as and when they open. Creating a non-plot layer (if it doesn't already exist) and moving everything placed on the defpoints (excluding the dim-definition-points which is the reason Defpoints exist) onto that new layer. This would take no time out of your production at all! And you'll be avoiding any problems associated with the defpoints layer.

E.g.:

(vl-load-com)
(defun c:CleanDefpoints (/ nplotLayer blk eo)
  ;; Get ActiveX objects as global variables (if not already done so)
  (or *vla-Acad-Object* (setq *vla-Acad-Object* (vlax-get-acad-object)))
  (or *vla-ActiveDocument* (setq *vla-ActiveDocument* (vla-get-ActiveDocument *vla-Acad-Object*)))
  (or *vla-BlocksCollection* (setq *vla-BlocksCollection* (vla-get-Blocks *vla-ActiveDocument*)))
  (or *vla-LayersCollection* (setq *vla-LayersCollection* (vla-get-Layers *vla-ActiveDocument*)))

  ;; Check if non-plot layer exists
  (setq nplotLayer "NoPlot") ;Change name to suit
  (if (or
        ;; If the layer exists
        (not (vl-catch-all-error-p (setq eo (vl-catch-all-apply 'vla-Item (list *vla-LayersCollection* nplotLayer)))))
        ;; Or can be created
        (setq eo (vla-Add *vla-LayersCollection* nplotLayer))
    )
    (progn
      ;; Turn its Plottable property OFF
      (vla-put-Plottable eo :vlax-false)

      ;; Step through everything in this drawing and change it from Defpoints to the non-plot layer
      (vlax-for blk *vla-BlocksCollection*
        (if (and (= (vla-get-IsXRef blk) :vlax-false) ;If the current block def is not an xref
                 (wcmatch (vla-get-EffectiveName blk) "~`*D*") ;And is not unnamed blockdef of dimension
                 )
          ;; Step through all entities inside the block
          (vlax-for eo blk
            (if (eq (strcase (vla-get-Layer eo)) "DEFPOINTS") ;Check if entity is on defpoints
              (vla-put-Layer eo nplotLayer)
            )
          )
        )
      )
    )
  )
  (princ)
)

Change the name of the layer to whatever you want (highlighted in red).

You can have that running on all drawings through various methods (though I'd go with the s::startup method). Or simply run the command manually. You can't tell me that a single command is going "take too long to use".

[scott.jeffers]

You should never put anything on DefPoints.

Why?

BECAUSE YOU SHOULD NEVER PUT ANYTHING ON DEFPOINTS!!

Sorry for shouting....