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Thread: Hi, My Name Is......

  1. #51
    Member ccallen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    I went to one of AUGI's "Cad Camps" last winter and I find that sort of thing helpful in terms of picking up on new stuff, but it's also too general to help sort out specific needs. If you continue to do the same things with CAD, picking up each upgrade shouldn't be that much of a problem, but my FEELING is that that isn't true anymore with AutoCAD - it's becoming harder and harder to ramp up with a new version. However, my real sympathies go to people just starting out, or maybe changing what they do with the package.

    I was involved with designing a "computer conferencing" program (an early version of today's forums like this one) in 1980-1985. The problem quickly became apparent. Those of us who had used the package from the start didn't really have any serious problems everytime an upgrade would come out, but after even a couple years, the commands (it was ALL command-oriented back then - no mousies yet) - all the stuff you could do with the program - had become SO dense it was almost too intimidating to any NEW users.

    And people were just using that program more or less for fun, or at least a free-time thing. That's not true with AutoCAD - I am amazed when I hear about people out there WORKING in CAD who can take a couple weeks to get "oriented" to a CAD upgrade. I sure couldn't do that. And I think that is becoming more of an issue.

  2. #52
    I could stop if I wanted to Ammon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    I agree. When it takes at least a couple of weeks to upgrade to a newer version of AutoCAD just to learn the new idiosincracies, it is difficult to justify the upgrade.

  3. #53
    I could stop if I wanted to Ammon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    Especially when I just get used to using one release, they release a new one.

    I like the new abilities they do, but the time saved in learning how to operate the new release is not always worth the price and learning time of the upgrade.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    What version of EP are you guys on?
    I use the latest stuff and LOVE the Command Line COGO they now have in the new version of the software.
    As for Civil 3D I think that your IT person is right on the money, my sorces and they go pretty high up tell me the same thing.
    As for them getting COGO any easier I would not look for that to happen. They use Carlson Survey for all of their Survey software now a days. And from what I have heard Carlson has a very nice COGO package too, although I have not use it nor have I seen the one that Autodesk sells.
    But I do know that your cost to upgrade your existing EP is cheeper then if you wher to purchase new software, plus the added cost of new training on the new software is much higher.

  5. #55
    Woo! Hoo! my 1st post
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    I agree that in general CAD software is becoming more complex but it seems that the complexity is simply a natural byproduct of the more complex abilities of the software. With any type of powerful software it makes sense to be trained on how to use the software by a professional. The alternative of muddling through using the software and trying to learn on the fly is by far more time consuming and although there are no easily quantifiable costs associated to self-learning, the on-the-clock time spent guessing will definitely add up and will most likely exceed the cost of a training class. I’m very familiar with Civil 3D and LDT and feel that both programs offer an outstanding array of COGO functionally, the real trick to making the most of the software is understanding how it works.

  6. #56
    Civil Engineering Moderator MHultgren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    (Jumps up on soapbox here!) With so many Self-taught GURUS out there from the early years, it makes sense that they would balk at new approaches and methodologies. Take a look back, when Vlisp was not available, people were a bit reluctant to try Lisp, until they saw how much it increased production. Does that mean that everyone needed to learn how to write Lisp? No, just how to load and run a routine. As the software packages get more complex, it is the job of us CAD Managers and Project Managers to determine which methods work the best for our type of work and the way we do it. That is why AU is held EVERY year! Where else can you get not only training from those who actually wrote the program (or parts of it) but also get to give them your input on what you think would make it even better!
    I do my best to get some advanced training every year, I figure I am a professional and as with any profession, you need to maintain a certain level of annual education to stay abreast of advances in your industry. Those who would like to keep using AutoCAD like it was release 10, are either lazy (IMHO) or are not looking at what they do as a profession, to them it is just a 9 to 5 waste of time that they get a paycheck for. Steps off soapbox
    I have put over twenty years into CAD and it really irritates me when folks complain about software getting too complex to use, when you think what it used to take to do this by hand (with a slide rule or calculator and a drawing board) using tools like a Planimeter and Triangles, T squares, templates and Rapidograph's. Or how about having to erase an entire column of text on a sheet of linen with an exacto knife!
    Sorry for my ranting, but how easy do you think it is to calculate the volume of an irregular shaped pond with an irregular varying depth by hand?

  7. #57
    Member backwoods's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    Hi, my name is...well, should be easy to figure out...I am also the local It guy at our company. I believe Civil 3d is a gigantic step in the right direction, and it is alot closer then you guys are realizing.

    I am afraid if you don't start taking notice now, that as releases get more advanced, then a few days of training will not get you very far. I have been knee deep in Civil 3d going 8 months or so and use it for everything I possibly can. I cannot stand Land Desktop anymore. It works, and I will use it when forced, but it just does not have near the functionality and efficeincy that civil 3d has.
    [done bragging]

    Anyways, I am forced into Land desktop still for survey duty. Carlson desktop is an excellent program. I am a former survcadd user and sucked it up when we switched to ldd and tried the fieldbook experiment. Didn't enjoy it, and immediately picked up carlson desktop. I have been happy with this, and heard at au that carlson for civil 3d is right around the bend, so that has me excited!

    To me, this is the first time we can allow cadd to do what we always wanted. I never understood why we had a z value but never took advantage of it. We are finally exploring the possibilities in infrastructure. And they are endless.

  8. #58
    Geospatial Moderator Jmurphy's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    Hi. My name is Murph. I been a AutoCAD user for a long long time........ started with R11/12 and now use Map 3D here at work but the management wants to swith over to a more robust GIS system. The EEEEEEEESRI platform so being the faithful AutoDesk user I got a copy of C3D to learn with, in case I decide to move on to better pastures. If you hit up the regular Map NG or the map forum you may of seen me there along with other news groups or forums that I hang out in.

  9. #59
    Geospatial Moderator Jmurphy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    I agree with you. Either keep up people or get out of the way because you're going to get ran over.

    Quote Originally Posted by MHultgren
    (Jumps up on soapbox here!)
    <snipped to save space>
    .

  10. #60
    100 Club Phil Ferguson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hi, My Name Is......

    Hi, my name is Phil. I started using Autocad (R10 maybe?) and a host of lisp routines as a field surveyor somewhere around 1996. At the time, working in the field, it made sense for me to come into the office after doing some topo to "connect the dots". After that, I secured a position with my current employer in the survey dept. as a survey/cad technician. Sometime around 1999, the company decided to start using LDD for R14 (as opposed to Eagle Point and to replace a not-so-well-known software called Vango). It wasn't long before I made the "leap" to the engineering dept. I guess you could say...the rest is history.

    Now, getting to the current "topic"...Knowing what the software that you are using is capable of is half the battle. This is why I believe that many of the opportunities that are available to see these software packages in action are valuable. The first training that I received for LDD was not much more than a "show-and-tell" (although it was 2 days worth of it). This training armed me with at least a little knowledge about what the software was supposed to be able to do. The environment around here was such that people would spend some time trying to figure out the functionality of a certain feature and if they couldn't get it to work, they went back to the way they knew to get the job done. As we learned things we SHARED with our coworkers and we all benefited from it (including the management). The management also knew that it was going to take a long time for them to see a return on their investment but they would benefit in the long run. After more than six years of using LDT, I still look at it as if it were a game. How do I make this do what I want it to do? Is there a better way? Is there someone around here that can teach me how to use this software more effectively? These are the types of questions that I feel are my responsibility to ask myself...not only for myself, but for my employer and my industry as a whole. The idea of just settling for the abilities that I currently have or have had in the past has not spent more than a fleeting moment moment in my mind. As a result, I no longer use LDT as a mere drafting tool nor only as a production tool...I use it as a design tool.

    Now looking to the future...I have not had the opportunity to spend much time with Civil 3D nor has anyone else within the company. I have proposed to the corporate system administrator (I'm the local system administrator) that we install Civil 3D on each of the technician workstations that we have, not to replace but to supplement LDT. This will give techs/designers/project managers a chance to "see what it looks like". Once this has been done, each office would have a couple users spend time in light training with the software. Eventually, a few users would receive more extensive training (perhaps AU and beyond) and be able to then teach their coworkers. With a little luck and cooperation from the management, this will be accomplished before LDT is a thing of the past...

    For those of you that have been using Civil 3D or that have experience changing software platforms (virtually), does this seem to be an effective plan? Any feedback on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Phil Ferguson; 2005-12-06 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Edited for content and to fit this screen.

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