Fire Rated Plan Graphic

[kmarquis]

This is such an old tired topic and I've read several posts on the issue but I've created something and I wanted to run it past the forum to get some opinions. Over the past 8 years of using Revit I've represented fire-rated walls several ways. In the beginning the teams I worked with would just represent fire-rated walls with drafting lines. I don't like this because it's something that has to be managed with all your different plans, enlarged plans and details.

Then I moved to Model Lines. Of course when you place them inside the center of the wall they disappear because the wall is obscurring the line. I created reference planes at the same level as each Levels Cut Plane and placed the lines on the Reference Plane. Perfect...and the line shows up in all your plans. This is nice but I don't like how the line looks at different scales. Easily fixed with a filter but what I've done that I'm really happy with but I have yet to use it on a project is that I created a Generic Model of a dash and a dot to represent a 1-hour rated wall. I then nested that generic model into a wall hosted family and locked it to the middle of the wall and created an array. When I bring the family into the project, I set it's height to match the cut plane and it's beautiful. You can lock the end of the array to the end of the wall so when you pull the wall the line comes with it and it scales so looks perfect in every view. Sorry for such a long winded explanation but I wanted to know if anyone saw any holes in this plan. Overkill?

What else do people do?

[bbeck]

This is such an old tired topic and I've read several posts on the issue but I've created something and I wanted to run it past the forum to get some opinions. Over the past 8 years of using Revit I've represented fire-rated walls several ways. In the beginning the teams I worked with would just represent fire-rated walls with drafting lines. I don't like this because it's something that has to be managed with all your different plans, enlarged plans and details.

Then I moved to Model Lines. Of course when you place them inside the center of the wall they disappear because the wall is obscurring the line. I created reference planes at the same level as each Levels Cut Plane and placed the lines on the Reference Plane. Perfect...and the line shows up in all your plans. This is nice but I don't like how the line looks at different scales. Easily fixed with a filter but what I've done that I'm really happy with but I have yet to use it on a project is that I created a Generic Model of a dash and a dot to represent a 1-hour rated wall. I then nested that generic model into a wall hosted family and locked it to the middle of the wall and created an array. When I bring the family into the project, I set it's height to match the cut plane and it's beautiful. You can lock the end of the array to the end of the wall so when you pull the wall the line comes with it and it scales so looks perfect in every view. Sorry for such a long winded explanation but I wanted to know if anyone saw any holes in this plan. Overkill?

What else do people do?

Do you need to see your fire ratings in sections? I use course fill patterns, lacks text in the pattern but I feel that a legend with keynote modifier at wall takes care of that. I wish we could afford to print color.

[kmarquis]

No we don't need to see rated walls in section and challenge with the firm I'm at now is we show our plans at fine detail so we can see the assembly of the walls.

[Alfredo Medina]

Maybe a Filter by the Fire Rating parameter would be better to set up especial graphics to fire rated walls? Then you can apply the filter to several views, with view templates.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I wish we could afford to print color.

I hear this argument all the time and the truth of the matter is we can afford to print in color... if we don't print full size drawings!
We need to ask ourselves who needs the 'code compliance' drawings? Typically it is the authority reviewing the project for compliance. The reason we feel the need to print full size drawings is to allow the person viewing the drawings to read text tags or differentiate dashes, dots and combinations of the traditional graphics we've used to show the rating on walls. If we create separate code compliance views and use colors (filters are my choice) we can set them up at coarse detail level and they read really well at 11x17. A ledger size drawing can be printed from a laser or inkjet easily and submitted along with the other permit drawings or bound into the project spec.
On the construction side the wall tag will generally guide the trades doing the layout and they probably won't refer to the compliance drawings much during construction.

On larger projects when I've used a code consultant they almost always produce reduced drawings as part of their code compliance report. I know this isn't the solution for all projects and some folks will say their local authorities are too set in their ways to change but it's worked for me on a few projects.

[kmarquis]

There's much more to the Rated Wall graphic than code compliance officials. It's something that all the disciplines need to be aware of for penetrations such as ducts, doors, borrowed lights...even semi recessed fire extinguisher cabinets need to have the gyp wrapped around the back of the cabinet instead of interupted. It needs to be ridicuously clear on the drawings where these walls are to everyone. I wish Autodesk just provided some cool feature in the wall families that added this graphic in to walls with a fire rating.

[Dimitri Harvalias]

I understand it's not just about submissions. I was referring to the 'printing' argument. Those who have access to the model or digital output aren't concerned about the cost of printing. If they have a specific view that is color coded to display ratings then they can easily determine rating requirements for everything from penetrations to sprinklering requirements or even door hardware. Even if they're not playing in the BIM sandbox and need to print these views out the don't necessarily need to do it full size.
The advantage of basing it on filters accessing wall parameters is that the model can more effectively be used for QA/QC. Say your wall is rated at 1HR and openings require a 45min rating. Set up filters to have Revit fill the 1HR walls red and the 45 min doors red. If your plan shows you red doors in red walls, all is good. if the plan shows a blue door in a red wall then either the door or the wall is not correctly spec'd. Same goes for extinguisher cabinets, borrowed lights.
Service penetrations can be handled with clash detection or coordination views. Even if you don't model the wall penetrations you can overlay the MEP info in the color coded Arch view. Wherever the duct (drawn or modeled) crosses a red wall the MEP better indicate a damper.
I'm not trying to oversimplify it I'm just saying that we need to reassess how we present information and explore other options to leverage our models. As for ridiculous clarity, nothing is clearer or quicker to discern than color (assuming your consultants and trades aren't color blind )

[kmarquis]

Very good Dimitri...I completely agree and that is an awesome idea for internal QC working views with the walls/doors. I'm just all worked up about this silly line graphic. Not a huge deal though...Sometimes I spend more time figuring out an automatic solution that takes more time than actually drafting a detail line in plan.