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Thread: Sloped Roofs

  1. #1
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    Default Sloped Roofs

    I would like some feedback on how others are addressing this.
    I have a roof system with sloped owsj/metal deck(floor). I have been doing a rather painful, manual work around for YEARS now.
    Each time the rood slope changes, I essentially remodel the roof framing for a couple of reasons one being the owsj will reset their location to line up the top of joist to top of framing member they are coming into (anayltical model, I get it, stupid but I get it). I have seen it all. I will manually override the end elevation and the joist will do some crazy extension, delete, become slightly off axis....I have not been successful with trying to modify the owsj family to have the reference level associated with the shoe depth location. I can get to it work but some of the web groups stay messed up and I haven't had the time to devote to it. Anyway, that is another discussion. I have tried creating a roof reference plane to no avail. I have tried a beam system (but I can't position the first and last joist with equal spacing in between) It is even worse when the owsj is perpendicular to the slope. I have to carefully check every joist every time. I have some really big jobs coming up. I need to find a solution.
    Any thoughts?
    Jennifer

  2. #2
    I could stop if I wanted to
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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    Try this workflow for sloped roofs.
    start out flat and layout grids and columns, add beams along gridlines.
    Then change properties of all beams on gridline.
    change the Start and End attachment type to distance, the default setting is end elevation which is too much work.
    next using beam system add in your web joists in the bays, check 3D, I use the automatic beam system it is much quicker.
    select all of web joists and change properties.
    set z-direction justification to other
    set z-direction offset value to your joist seat depth.
    now add your roof deck, I like to height offset to be above level. add your roof slope to the roof deck.
    Select all of your columns, then attach top to roof deck.
    be sure to use attachment justification at top to intersection column at midline.
    also set offset from attachment at top to same value as your joist seat depth.

    if every thing works right all framing will match the slope of your roof.
    if you change slope of roof deck all framing will follow.
    if you change level height everything should adjust.
    if you change gridline bay spacing everything should adjust.
    to fine tune roof deck working point, adjust deck offset height above level.

    if you are using web joists that are not running same direction as roof slope.
    then you will need to adjust cross section rotation to match roof slope. you will see double line at each web joist in plan views.
    You will see bottom chord and end web in plan, If so you will need to modify and edit web joist family.

    also if you need to adjust top of beam to deck bearing, use z-direction justification and z-direction offset value.

    If you are exporting framing to design program, check you analytical model 3D view.
    if everything looks good, all the sticks connect the export should work. all of joists and beams should connect.
    if not connected then you may need to adjust analtical alignment of some elements.

  3. #3
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    Cool Re: Sloped Roofs

    I just spent the morning with my BIM manager going through roof framing and finding a better way of doing everything. I will list step by step what we do and why we do it that way so you can either agree or disagree with what we have found out. First of all we started off with wanting to just change one elevation marker to change the whole roof structure.

    1. start off with puting in your grids and just the underside of deck elevation
    2. Model in your roof deck at one elevation(flat roof)
    3. Model in all columns that will go to the underside of the roof deck then attach all columns to underside of the deck.
    3. Model in all main beams at underside of roof deck elevation.
    4. Select all the framing you just put in and change the start/end attachement type to distance(this will allow the beams to move with the columns)
    5. Now there are two types of framing here, You will have your edge beams that will only carry your deck and the beams that will carry your roof joists. For all the roof beams that will be carrying your joists you will need to change the z-direction justification to other and your z-direction offset value to your joist seat depth. Typically this value will be -100 but different depending on your types of joists.
    6. Your next step is to put in all your beam systems. When putting in your beams systems insure that the 3d box is not checked. (If the box is checked then any misc. framing you attach to these joists will not move properly and will have errors) By doing so this will make your joists move with any elevation changes you will make.
    7. Now is the fun part and watch all those extra steps pay off quickly. Go to your 3D view and select the roof/floor you have modelled in. Select the modify elements button under the shape editing comand. Modify your roof as required with the required points and split lines. This may take some time due to the fact that your are changing an entire roof structure and not just the roof decking itself.

    You now have a roof system that will move automatically and have all the analytically lines in the proper spots for engineering needs. I have tried adding pictures here but for some reason it keeps having errors. If you have any questions or need some clarification messege me and I will reply as soon as I can.
    Last edited by vplourd; 2012-05-29 at 09:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    I tend to use a ref plane for my floor level.
    Draw a ref plane at the slope you need, name it, and use it as your work plane for your framing.
    Create your roof plate (decking or whatever) on the flat to get the out line in plan, and then edit it's work plane.
    Dave Peterson

    Acad 2014 - Revit Structure 2013 & 2014 - Win 7 64 - i7-4770 4.5GHz 32GB Ram - Nvidia Geforce GTX 650
    "The more you know, the less you know, because the more you know you don't know". --M. Lin

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    Sloped Roof Framing:
    Place a structural floor (roof decking). Set the floor slope (slope can be set later)
    Cut a section and set the work plane to the bottom of the deck. Revit will prompt you to go to a plan view. Pick the view where the new floor was created.
    Beam command: Select 3D Snapping.
    Place perimeter Beams by drawing in the Beam line, picking edge of the deck first.
    Place beam system for interior members.
    Adjust the beams elevation (if joists are used) to allow the joist seats to sit on top.
    I use Z direction: other. This way I have only one elevation to deal with.
    After the floor slopes all the framing should follow.
    Test to see if a member is actually attached to the decking by clicking the member and in the properties, Work Plane will state the type of floor it is attached to. If the Work plane is not visible, then the member is attached to the level and not the floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferd View Post
    I would like some feedback on how others are addressing this.
    I have a roof system with sloped owsj/metal deck(floor). I have been doing a rather painful, manual work around for YEARS now.
    Each time the rood slope changes, I essentially remodel the roof framing for a couple of reasons one being the owsj will reset their location to line up the top of joist to top of framing member they are coming into (anayltical model, I get it, stupid but I get it). I have seen it all. I will manually override the end elevation and the joist will do some crazy extension, delete, become slightly off axis....I have not been successful with trying to modify the owsj family to have the reference level associated with the shoe depth location. I can get to it work but some of the web groups stay messed up and I haven't had the time to devote to it. Anyway, that is another discussion. I have tried creating a roof reference plane to no avail. I have tried a beam system (but I can't position the first and last joist with equal spacing in between) It is even worse when the owsj is perpendicular to the slope. I have to carefully check every joist every time. I have some really big jobs coming up. I need to find a solution.
    Any thoughts?
    Jennifer

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    Jenniferd,

    Dmahan has the correct process, but vplourd's process seems to keep the analytical model at the correct location. I would use her method of offsetting the supporting beam's z parameter, but follow dmahan's process for everything else. The only other thing I would say is that I have yet to sgkl right because I love the way they tag. It is always a struggle for me when i use them, specifically getting them to correctly show the end bearing condition: The joists should not line up end to end at the supporting girder, right? They should be offset so the ends can utilize the full width of the girder's top flanehier min required bearing depth.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    Just as I thoughtfully dread, the roof slope has changed. Deck is easy to adjust, the framing NOT SO MUCH. I have tried to create a reference plane (in section aligned to u/s deck), named it and can't edit the work plane of any given beam to it. This is really starting to irritate me. It is like redrawing the entire roof structure. I despise the beam system function because it doesn't space the beams properly. I just may implode today. There has got to be a better way. This is painful. In theory using a sloped reference plane would be helpful. Why is this not working?
    I understand what Dmahan is saying but I have not set up this way (short of drawing yet again. I have a crazy deadline to meet)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    I feel your pain, been there done that. Only tip I have for you is create temp movable section to align your framing. I name a few sections and move the location around on plan to adjust or check the framing. Do not like if users move sections around if placed on sheet.What I have learned about sloping reference plans is the framing on sloping plane is not aware of the other connecting framing and spans, this affects some things if the slope is changed.What I see is Revit prefers to determine framing slope by distance and elevation.

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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    I haven't had as many headaches, but I agree that the simple act of adding a slope to a framing system in Revit complicates the modeling tremendously. Reference planes help a lot, but there's still a lot of adjusting required. As far as positioning the beam system member in the right locations, have you tried using sketch mode, and set the Justification to the "Direction Line", and then drawing the direction line separately from the sketch boundary wherever you want it? I never used beam systems until I discovered this feature (which of course took me awhile since I never used them!)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sloped Roofs

    trailbyfire - I will give that a try.
    Thanks everyone.

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