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Thread: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

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    Default Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    I'm working on a fairly large project in Revit: an apartment building that I've linked unit type "blocks" into and workshared for the team to work on. We have maybe 5-6 people working on it at any given time and we are having significant slowdowns related to SWC.

    Some working on the project seem to have little problems while others are being forced to SWC every fifteen minutes or so often requiring several other people to SWC in a sequence to free up the elements that have been requested.

    A few days ago we were having even more significant problems where this was even more pronounced and we had the Revit files locking on us where user A would not be able to SWC until user B had, but user B could not SWC until user A had. To solve this I would save locally and close the file while Relinquishing All Elements. This tactic would unlock the file for us.

    The problem has gotten better. I had a drafting view called Loading Screen set as the Starting View and I suspected that each user was being forced to gain access to this view each time they wanted to SWC. I have turned this off and set it to Last Viewed and this seems to have made things better. (Was my suspicion here correct?)

    However, we continue to have significant slowdowns based on one user who seems to retain ownership of maybe twenty sheets that other users have to gain access to to SWC. See attached picture. The oddity is that this user has not opened, viewed, or edited any of these sheets recently and he often SWC and Relinquishes All.
    Ghost Editing Requests.png

    What can cause this, and how can I keep it from happening?

    We are currently switching to Revit and some AutoCAD zealots in the office are having some fun taking potshots at Revit because of this issue.

    Cheers,
    Kory

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    100 Club jseck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    Can you clarify what you mean by, "...I've linked unit type "blocks" into and workshared for the team to work on..."?

    Are users checking out worksets or just using element borrowing?

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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    Certainly, we have four unit types in the building. Each unit type consists of party walls, exterior walls, corridor walls, and floors (interiors are being handled in an additional set of files that have these unit shell files linked into them). These units types are separate files that are then linked into the overall model rather than trying to use groups to accomplish the same. In this way I am able to unload all of the units in the building, by unit type, to improve performance while working on common areas. We also have been setting up options within each unit file for exterior elevation changes that are mapped to a view template in the overall building to keep the number of units to a minimum.

    We only have one workset and everything is being handled via borrowing.

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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    Your last statement is the crux of the problem: "We only have one workset and everything is being handled via borrowing." Separating the model into worksets minimizes file locks and borrowing requests. Either break up the model by floors or regions, or by sub-disciplines; this assumes that the 5-6 concurrent users are working on separate floors or separate disciplines. hth.

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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    Does it minimize problems just by having the myriad worksets, or would I have to check worksets out to individual users to gain the advantages that you're talking about?

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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    Yes, you need more worksets....

    We have a couple for architectural, one for structural, one for interiors, and instead of unloading a linked file you might want to put each unit on a workset too so you can make them inactive instead of unloading them..

    You can have multiple users using the same workset, but probably no more than 2 or 3...

    Also, you should task out people to specific areas...that pic you posted has someone all over the place..and probably should be working in a view and not from a sheet.
    Last edited by cdatechguy; 2012-11-16 at 09:57 PM. Reason: text jumped
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    100 Club meng005's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    When you are spending more time moving stuff from the wrong workset, you know you have too many worksets. Unless it's a large project (10+ concurrent users in the models) you should not need more than 5 worksets....

    Here is some detail discussion on how many you could have: http://revitoped.blogspot.com/2012/0...do-i-need.html
    Last edited by meng005; 2013-05-24 at 10:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    The pic I posted was meant to underline a problem where the user had not been in any of the areas listed. He was working on different sheets than the ones listed. Why would Revit require him to relinquish items he had not borrowed in the first place?

    Also, I noticed that as this project tapered off to only a couple users our SWC problems have all but disappeared. We only experienced major problems when we had half a dozen working on various areas of the project. At one time we had a guy working on the door schedule and he had to gain permission to edit virtually everything. It seemed that any time someone borrowed a wall a door was hosted in they would gain that door as well.

    So, if I were to create half a dozen worksets by area would I have to check out a workset to gain the advantages mentioned? The tone of the replies seems to indicate this, but does anyone know what causes this? It would seem to me that if someone checked out the left wing workset, say, they would still have to relinquish items if someone else needed to edit something in that wing, correct?

    Also, I am wary of creating more than one workset right now because most of the users here are brand new to the software and I don't want to add another layer of complexity by asking them to think about what workset they're creating things on. Even after all the years I've been using Revit I still place things on the wrong worksets.

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    Revit Forum Manager Steve_Stafford's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    The way that element borrowing occurs quietly as you edit elements means that it is quite easy to end up the owner of elements. In the screen capture you posted all the items are view worksets which we don't create so the question of too many or too few is irrelevant, at least regarding those. It is easy to become a borrower of a sheet, just add a view to it, alter a sheet's parameter value and you are a borrower. If you don't use Synchronize and Modify Settings (SwC) instead of Synchronize Now (SN) it is possible to save your changes but not actually relinquish what you borrowed. SN usually returns Families, Project Standards and View worksets but it never checks the option for User Created. As a precaution I always use SwC so I can make sure the check boxes are all checked as well as enter a comment for the sake of tracking and troubleshooting later.

    It is also possible to casually become the owner of an element if you create an editing request but then close your project file before getting permission. When the person you sent the editing request to uses SwC the ownership of that element will be passed to you even though you no longer are actively working on the file.

    In general I find that people fail to appreciate the significance of changing a parameter, you borrow an element when you change it, no matter how subtle. When I ask people what they "did"...their reply usually begins with "I only did..." Opening a view and looking at things in the model doesn't mean you own something. It's only when you change something...anything...from what it was to something else.

    SwC performance issues usually can be mitigated by being more aware of when other people are using SwC. Have each person run Worksharing Monitor and look to see if anyone is doing it before they choose to. Large teams often create a queue so that you get a clear shot at syncing. The more people that sync at the same time, the slower Revit will reconcile all of our changes. If one person seems to be taking longer than everyone else (Worksharing Monitor's History feature will show that) you can get suspicious of the frequency they use it, waiting too long between synchronization. It can also be an indication that their computer is weaker than the rest of the team. A single weak computer that has poor performance will drag the rest of the team down during the use of SwC, meaning others wait longer for their turn.
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; 2013-04-22 at 10:58 PM. Reason: grammer and spelling

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    Default Re: Learning to Share. Like Kindergarten All Over Again

    Thanks for the reply Steve. I've heard mention of Worksharing Monitor before but I haven't downloaded it for our office yet. Working on getting it to everyone. We're through the bottleneck of this particular project, but I'm sure it will come in handy very soon on a few larger projects coming down the pipe.

    Also, I thought that SwC automatically checked the relinquish Borrowed Elements box unless it is unchecked by the user? I could've sworn....

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