Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29

Thread: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

  1. #1
    100 Club Paul Munford's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006-08
    Location
    London
    Posts
    173
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    This goes out to Architects, Engineers and designers who review drawings from other companies - eg. Contractors.

    What fills you full of joy when you open a set of drawings? What fills you full of dread!

    Id really love to get your feedback on what you look for in a set of submittal drawings.

    Thanks in advance for your time.

    Paul

  2. #2
    I could stop if I wanted to Norton_cad's Avatar
    Join Date
    2007-05
    Location
    Bardwell Valley, Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    487
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    That depends on the result required?
    Ohm's Law - Electricity follows the path of least resistance.

    Regards,

    Mark Norton,

  3. #3
    100 Club StDoodle's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008-01
    Posts
    158
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    My pet peeve is when I ask a simple and direct question on my drawings as a sub-contractor / manufacturer, such as "verify dimension from face of pier to face of typical masonry" and get back a response of "see architectural drawings." Really, I never thought to look.... I'm sure that during the many hours I poured over your drawings, I simply missed the clearly labeled information I need. If something is a design issue, the architect should really be able to provide simple information. If it's a matter of field conditions, have the GC check. But often, no one wants to take responsibility, and we all know which direction on the sloped earth excrement travels in.
    2012-02-24: Finally got around to installing my home copy of AutoCAD... no longer relying on my horrible memory for "how-to" advice!

  4. #4
    100 Club Paul Munford's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006-08
    Location
    London
    Posts
    173
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Norton_cad View Post
    That depends on the result required?
    Your result or my result?

    My best result is to get my drawings passed by you with as little Red ink as possible!

    I'd like to know what result you require?

  5. #5
    100 Club Paul Munford's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006-08
    Location
    London
    Posts
    173
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    @StDoodle

    So would you say that you want to feel confident that the drawings you are reviewing have already been coordinated and verified before you receive them (or at least have it noted when a site survey is still to be carried out).

  6. #6
    I could stop if I wanted to Norton_cad's Avatar
    Join Date
    2007-05
    Location
    Bardwell Valley, Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    487
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    Well in Acad, I'm looking for a drawing that opens quickly, follows a layer structure, and a drawing numerical sequence,. To name a few.
    In Revit, I'm looking for, more features. Also rendered images have those own quality test. It depends...
    Ohm's Law - Electricity follows the path of least resistance.

    Regards,

    Mark Norton,

  7. #7
    ACA Community Director dkoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-03
    Location
    Where the BIM things are.
    Posts
    2,047
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Munford View Post
    This goes out to Architects, Engineers and designers who review drawings from other companies - eg. Contractors.

    What fills you full of joy when you open a set of drawings? What fills you full of dread!

    Id really love to get your feedback on what you look for in a set of submittal drawings.

    Thanks in advance for your time.

    Paul
    Comments from an architect:

    1. The most joy comes from reviewing a submittal where it is obvious that the submitter has actually looked at our drawings and has incorporated the design intent into their own, more detailed drawings.

    2. I dread submittals that consist of our drawings (in whole or in parts) sent back to us. I already know what we drew, and even in the best of circumstances, what we show is design intent, not shop-drawing level detail or development. Simply sending me what I issued to you is not a submittal; I expect to see your detailed knowledge of your specific product or fabrication as it applies to this project, and, when applicable, how your specific product works with the surrounding construction and what requirements, if any, your work needs from the surrounding construction.

    3. I also dread submittals that show excruciatingly detailed internal construction, but give little or no indication of how that product or fabrication interacts with the surrounding construction. I have no objection to detailed internal construction - it may be very necessary on your end - but I want to see that you understand what the surrounding construction is (or how you need it to be) and how your product/fabrication integrates into it (including fastenings, joints/clearances/tolerances). I understand that some of that is not part of your contract - great, note it as such, but show it none-the-less. If the joint has to be bigger than what was shown in the design documents, show it and indicate why. I would rather deal with this in the submittal phase, than learn about it in the field, after it is already installed.

    4. If there are questions about the design intent, or areas where the "typical" design intent does not apply or needs to be modified, clearly ask the questions and/or clearly indicate areas where you have made your best attempt to meet the design intent or where you need additional direction from us. My drawings are not always 100% perfect. The time/staff available for some projects does not allow every condition to be fully developed/detailed in the design documents. That said, it makes my review ever so much easier if areas where assumptions had to be made, where questions exist or additional direction is required are clearly marked as such. And while I have been known to grumble about questions that are clearly answered in the documents, I will gladly forgive quite a few of those if all questions are clearly identified so I can focus on those areas.

    5. Another source of joy when reviewing submittals is when the submittal set is well organized and details and sections are appropriately cross-referenced not only within the submittal set but also back to my set. I really hate having to guess to what part of the project each item in the submittal applies, or what detail of mine was the supposed basis for a detail in the submittal. On smaller jobs, it may be possible to sort it out, but even there it takes more of my time that could be better spent reviewing the submittal. On larger jobs, it can be next to impossible to sort out, making the review difficult, adding to the red ink and increasing the odds that I will need to ask for a resubmission.

    6. On larger projects, it is often necessary to break the submittal for a particular trade into several "chunks" that get sent in separately. I have no problem with that (in fact, I would prefer it to having the drawings held until all are done, and then sent in with a request to rush the review so production can get underway), but it is greatly appreciated if the first submittal can include some sort of indication of the overall scope of the entire submittal, with a clear delineation of what is being included in the first set. This saves me from guessing as to whether more will be submitted later, or if parts of the project were just missed. It also saves me from listing the missing bits and asking that they also be submitted.
    David Koch

  8. #8
    100 Club Paul Munford's Avatar
    Join Date
    2006-08
    Location
    London
    Posts
    173
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    Absolutely excellent advice David - thanks very much, that is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for

    I guess that we get feedback every time we issue a set of drawings (A, B or C status!) But it is always good to take a step back and ask how we are doing.

    So - to keep the conversation going, how do you like to receive the drawings? Do you prefer to run through them with the contractor before reviewing them? Would you rather see the drawings before meeting the contractor? How important is you relationship with the contractors who are fulfilling your design?

  9. #9
    ACA Community Director dkoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    2003-03
    Location
    Where the BIM things are.
    Posts
    2,047
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Munford View Post
    Absolutely excellent advice David - thanks very much, that is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for

    I guess that we get feedback every time we issue a set of drawings (A, B or C status!) But it is always good to take a step back and ask how we are doing.

    So - to keep the conversation going, how do you like to receive the drawings? Do you prefer to run through them with the contractor before reviewing them? Would you rather see the drawings before meeting the contractor? How important is you relationship with the contractors who are fulfilling your design?
    Each project has its own peculiarities, but in general, we do not necessarily have contact with the originating (sub)contractor until well after the submittal process is started or over. Our specifications call for the GC or CM to review all submittals for conformance with the contract documents and to certify them as such, but this is often little more than rubber stamping. If the project schedule is tight and there are many things that need to be resolved, we will sometimes meet with the originating contractor after the first submittal; most times a second or third resubmission resolves any questions without a face-to-face meeting.

    As a point of reference, all of my experience is with government or commercial work, primarily healthcare. Unless there is a pre-construction conference called for in the the specifications or there are numerous issues to resolve, most of the subcontractors whose submittals I review do not attend the project meetings, and I would not have much direct contact, unless the subcontractor's foreperson happens to be on site when I am making a site visit. And in most cases, the foreperson and installation crew are not involved in the preparation of submittals.

    The last project on which I worked had a very aggressive design/construction schedule, and the Owner was willing to pay for full-time site representation to assure that communication amongst all players was immediate, so I had much more contact with the contractors than usual. While there was a lot of stress on all team members, in hindsight it was a good experience for me. There is a big difference between being on site nearly every day and being on site once every two weeks, on a day when you have to fit in a construction meeting as well.
    David Koch

  10. #10
    Certifiable AUGI Addict Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    2001-12
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    4,642
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Do you review drawings? what does a good set of drawings look like to you?

    Not being on the design side myself, I know my answer will differ from the others.

    Being an owner, I get the drawings during closeout.

    I will check the title sheet and make sure all of the drawings are there (sad, yes, but, submittals are often incomplete for various reasons)
    Open up a random file and do basic QC scan
    AIA layers
    flipping the drawing to see how much is 2d and how much is 3d... it needs to be one or the other, not a random mix of both
    whether items are BYLAYER
    whether I can locate a detail on the detail sheet
    whether titleblocks give me enough information about the project

    There are a couple of other things, but, our CAD/BIM Standards are only the most basic of quality control items. I don't want to disturb anyone's workflow, I just need something that will be easy to modify in the coming decades, and clean enough that my mechanics can read it without my help or the engineers.
    Melanie Perry @MistresDorkness
    Archibus System Administrator
    Technical Editor
    not all who wander are lost
    (missing MEP/FP and Revit)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. need good car and tree families for 2d architectural drawings
    By archigrafix in forum Revit Architecture - Families
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2012-05-14, 12:41 PM
  2. Search text within drawings, without actually opening drawings
    By Animesh Kundu in forum AutoCAD General
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2008-02-29, 04:34 PM
  3. Shop Drawings review stamp.
    By archjake in forum Revit - In Practice
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2007-08-30, 01:29 PM
  4. 4-D Drawings
    By philA in forum AutoCAD LT - Wish List
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2005-08-17, 02:48 PM
  5. Opening drawings
    By dlperrings in forum AutoCAD Customization
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 2004-12-14, 04:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •