Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

  1. #1
    Active Member
    Join Date
    2010-11
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    91
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Exclamation Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    I have been struggling to understand how this type of pattern could be created with revit's pattern based curtain walls. I think the biggest hurdle I have come across is that of revits ability to introduce two different panels into the pattern applied to the surface. Is it possible that each panel in this facade is actually composed of multiple panels giving the illusion of being tiled individually over the surface? Also how did they get the panels to alternate interlocking with each other?

    Any thoughts on how Morphosis may have done this would be appreciated. I also believe they use generative components by bentley so i am wondering if maybe they generated the pattern in bentley and then brought it over to revit? CUBE-1-l.jpg

  2. #2
    All AUGI, all the time
    Join Date
    2009-03
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    924
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    First off, a question: where did you read that this was done in Revit? Not saying that it wasn't.
    Second, another question: I don't think it is a purely repeating pattern of two components (a parallelogram and a trapezoid). It looks a little more compositional than that.

    I don't see an immediate solution using a purely pattern-based curtain panel family.

    Then a first-thought solution: Create a conceptual mass cube with a triangular or rhomboid pattern. Create a simple four-point adaptive component. Manually place the component where you want it to achieve the composition that you are looking for.

    Second-thought solution: Create a trapezoid+parallelogram component, then use divide and repeat in 2013.

    Pictures of the design show a lot of variation in the surface of the panels. If they modelled this surface texture, it wasn't in revit... just sayin'.

  3. #3
    Revit BIM Consultant Alfredo Medina's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008-05
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,032
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    This is no problem for Revit. It could be done as a divided surface with curtain panels, nested, or as a curtain wall with custom curtain panel families. Can you post images of what you have tried so far?

  4. #4
    Active Member
    Join Date
    2010-11
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    91
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by damon.sidel View Post
    First off, a question: where did you read that this was done in Revit? Not saying that it wasn't.
    Second, another question: I don't think it is a purely repeating pattern of two components (a parallelogram and a trapezoid). It looks a little more compositional than that.

    I don't see an immediate solution using a purely pattern-based curtain panel family.

    Then a first-thought solution: Create a conceptual mass cube with a triangular or rhomboid pattern. Create a simple four-point adaptive component. Manually place the component where you want it to achieve the composition that you are looking for.

    Second-thought solution: Create a trapezoid+parallelogram component, then use divide and repeat in 2013.

    Pictures of the design show a lot of variation in the surface of the panels. If they modelled this surface texture, it wasn't in revit... just sayin'.

    This is the article I found where they mentioned the use of revit for the precast panels. http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/24261. However after looking further I found a blog by Morphosis and their IT department http://synosis.org/ reviewing this project and from one of the pictures it looks as though it was started in GT digital.

    Thanks for the alternative approaches to this project in revit. But I think you are correct when you said the pattern and the panels are modeled in something else as the sweeps on the panels are continuous across different panel geometry. I have a feeling the bulk of the modeling was done in gt digital all the way to fabrication for the precast guys and the rest of the project was documented in revit.

    On another note, would those two suggestion you made be the only way to model a pattern with two or more units composing the pattern? I am familiar with adaptive components and that seems like it would be quite a manual process to place each panel. I am not familiar with divide and repeat though.

    Also what do the checkerboard patterns provide that the regular patterns do not? I have looked around and I haven't found good examples of the checkerboard being used.

    Thanks for your reply really appreciate it. Trying to figure out the modeling for this project has been bugging me for awhile since I thought the entire thing was done in revit...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    Revit BIM Consultant Alfredo Medina's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008-05
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,032
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    It is possible in Revit. A panel can contain another panel, then the composed panel is applied to the divided surface. This image shows just a flat sketch. With some time, a panel could be modeled exactly as shown in the photographs. Another option is through custom panels and curtain walls. Probably the latter option might be less problematic in regards to custom edges and corners that turn around. But, in my opinion, this facade is possible in Revit.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    All AUGI, all the time
    Join Date
    2009-03
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    924
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    Alfredo, you have definitely come up with a nice way to model a repeating pattern that resembles the Cube. However, the Morphosis project is much more complex than that and isn't easily reduced to a simple pattern. I think the minute you go beyond the pattern, it becomes much more difficult to get the level of control in Revit that this design requires.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphite View Post
    This is the article I found where they mentioned the use of revit for the precast panels. http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/24261. However after looking further I found a blog by Morphosis and their IT department http://synosis.org/ reviewing this project and from one of the pictures it looks as though it was started in GT digital.

    Thanks for the alternative approaches to this project in revit. But I think you are correct when you said the pattern and the panels are modeled in something else as the sweeps on the panels are continuous across different panel geometry. I have a feeling the bulk of the modeling was done in gt digital all the way to fabrication for the precast guys and the rest of the project was documented in revit.
    That is definitely GT Digital Project or even just CATIA.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphite View Post
    On another note, would those two suggestion you made be the only way to model a pattern with two or more units composing the pattern? I am familiar with adaptive components and that seems like it would be quite a manual process to place each panel. I am not familiar with divide and repeat though.
    There may be other ways to do it, but without really digging in, they are the only two ways I could think of. They would be quite manual. Divide and repeat would help, but even if you ignore the texture on the panels and just want to the combination of trapezoid and parallelogram panels, it doesn't look like a repeating pattern. If it doesn't repeat, by definition you couldn't use a pattern-based solution or a divide and repeat solution. The next non-manual option would be a script.

    Interestingly enough, in the colorful image you post, there are vertical and diagonal joints. If the panels are actually rectangular and just have "fake" diagonal joints, that might suggest a solution with a pattern-based panel that you then swap out the oddballs from the pattern to make it more irregular.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphite View Post
    Also what do the checkerboard patterns provide that the regular patterns do not? I have looked around and I haven't found good examples of the checkerboard being used.
    The checked patterns leave holes and do not place a panel in the hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphite View Post
    Thanks for your reply really appreciate it. Trying to figure out the modeling for this project has been bugging me for awhile since I thought the entire thing was done in revit...
    Always good to be curious about these kinds of things. Most of the time with something this complicated: irregular composition, overlayed textured, etc, I always start thinking about scripts and more sophisticated methods than just OOTB Revit conceptual tools.

  7. #7
    Revit BIM Consultant Alfredo Medina's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008-05
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,032
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by damon.sidel View Post
    Alfredo, you have definitely come up with a nice way to model a repeating pattern that resembles the Cube. However, the Morphosis project is much more complex than that and isn't easily reduced to a simple pattern. I think the minute you go beyond the pattern, it becomes much more difficult to get the level of control in Revit that this design requires....
    I was referring to what I saw in the first image in the original post, and then in the photographs in the links. What I see now in the second image with the colors, does not have a clear relation to the pattern shown in the first image or in the photographs. What I see in the photographs is a pre-cast concrete panel. Again, given enough time, this is possible in Revit. What we see in the color image is different and I don't understand the relation between that and the first image or the photos.

  8. #8
    Active Member
    Join Date
    2010-11
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    91
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    Alfredo, the colored image displays the different extrusion types which "texture" the precast panels. Each panel is actually composed of a collection of these extrusions which were cast individually and then assembled to form the trapezoidal and parallelogram panels.

    This weekend I spent some more time dissecting this problem and the color image provided some further clues that moved me much further than I thought I would get. So far I have figured out the patterning issues using 4 different adaptive components hosted on a larger adaptive component the width of the building. The devil is in the details though...if you will notice in the colored image the textural extrusions run seamlessly from one panel to the next. I figured I would simply create adaptive components for the majority of the extrusions and host them on the 4 different panels after subdividing their respective surfaces. However creating a seamless transition between two panels Is proving the difficult part as there are so many "fractional" texture pieces as the result of the panel ending and a new panel beginning.

    To get the seamless transfer between two panels would either require lots of time spent placing fractional adaptive components. Or building in the fractional pieces to the main panel and ensuring they would mate with other panels (coordination). Any thoughts on this part of the problem?

    It's too bad revit does not have a project command similar to rhino. Then the trapezoidal panel grid could be projected to the cube and used to create the main pattern.

    Thanks for your thoughts. So far this has been a fairly good exercise for me in terms of getting to know adaptive components better. The goal isn't to recreate what they have done but rather consider how it might be modeled or approached within the domain of revit.

    Picture attached with circled fractional texture pieces.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    All AUGI, all the time
    Join Date
    2009-03
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Posts
    924
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    graphite, I wonder about the trapezoid-parallelogram pattern... is that really what the panels are? From this colorful image, there the extrusions seem to be based on a staggered, rectangular grid pattern. Two thoughts on this: (a) Could you model the whole thing based on a staggered, rectangular grid (and therefore not have fractional extrusions) and then add the trapezoidal joint in another manner? or (b) could you create TWO facades, one with the trap-paral pattern of large panels and a second applied facade of a staggered rectangular grid of the extrusions?

    Also, to Alfredo's ideas, the one thing that keeps getting me is that it's a solution that creates a regular pattern. From the first black and white image you linked and from other images I've found on the web, it looks like it is an IRRegular pattern. Therefore, you have to either manually place all the panels or create a pattern then replace a few panels that are exceptions. graphite, in your exploration of this design, have you figured out if it is a regular pattern with exceptions or completely compositional?

  10. #10
    Revit BIM Consultant Alfredo Medina's Avatar
    Join Date
    2008-05
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    1,032
    0 Did you find this post helpful? Yes

    Default Re: Alternating pattern with checkerboard pattern based curtain wall?

    I still don't have any idea what Graphite is talking about in regards to those colors. All I can say is, if I look at the photographs of the construction, (which you can see in those links) it's a precast concrete panel, that follows a regular pattern, repetitive, and that has special pieces to turn the corners, that's all. The ins and outs of the volume of the panel could be done in Revit, too. It would take some time to do one of them carefully, but I insist, all this is doable in Revit.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 2011: Curtain Panel Pattern Based
    By paul.buckley354066 in forum Revit Architecture - General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 2012-09-26, 12:37 PM
  2. 2012: Curtain Panel Pattern Based.rft Question
    By Jarod in forum Revit - Conceptual Design Tools
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2012-03-12, 06:42 PM
  3. normal vs. pattern based curtain wall panel
    By Ning Zhou in forum Revit Architecture - Families
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2010-09-13, 01:41 PM
  4. Curtain Panel Pattern Based
    By PaperStreet SoapCO in forum Revit Architecture - Families
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2009-06-08, 08:07 PM
  5. Missing pattern based curtain wall panels (2010)
    By AP23 in forum Revit Architecture - General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2009-04-19, 08:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •