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Thread: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

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    Default Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Hi all -

    Anyone have a clue about this?

    I am working on a window family with nested components added in. All works well except for one thing.

    I have a nested family for the exterior trim which I imported into my window. I want the trim to be set back from the outer face of the exterior side of the wall (this is residential - so you would have the trim applied on the sheathing and the siding run into it ) meaning the trim sits back and therefore must cut the wall. So I have a reference plane that is adjusted by a family parameter and the nested trim essentially snaps to that line. All good so far. Works nicely. I can set the trim back the depth of the siding and all looks great. The trim is a picture-framed trim around the window itself. I have made the trim from two sweeps - a header across the top and a U-shaped piece with a bottom piece and two side legs. This so that I can have the legs and bottom be one width (e.g. a 5/4 x 4 piece, while the top header can be wider (or not), e.g. a 5/4 x 6).

    Here's the problem. When I place the window family in a project the geometry all looks great in 3D, but when I look at the window in plan (fine and medium views), the exterior trim sometimes cuts the wall and sometimes doesn't. I have figured out that if I have my plan's cut plane set to below the mid-point (vertically) of the exterior trim geometry, it looks nice - the trim cuts the wall beautifully. BUT, set the plan cut plane above the midpoint and the exterior trim overlaps the wall - that is, it no longer looks like the siding butts up to the trim but instead runs right through it. I am figuring that it has to do with the trim profile being set at the midpoint of the vertical height of the trim. However I tried setting it so that the profile was at the bottom of the U-shaped sweep and the same happens. I suppose if I were to set the profile to be at the header that might work (that is, make a true picture frame) but I really wanted the flexibility of a variable header.

    Here are things I have set properly
    - Visibility set to "when cut in plan..."

    Here are things I have tried that don't work for my purposes -

    - Using a detailed component or masking region to create the plan image. It works in general but doesn't for "previous + new" overrides when doing renovation projects. I'd prefer to stick to using sweeps.
    - Setting the workplane for the sweeps - the profiles always end up on the midpoint of the path. Whether the workplane is above or below my cut plane makes no difference.
    - Voids - I want the trim to cut only in Medium & Fine views, not Course. I don't think they can be set to cut by detail level.

    My guess is if we could set the profile plan of a sweep to be other than the midpoint of the path this would work.

    Same thing happens in section, but I think solving the plan problem will likely help with the sections.

    I would prefer not to give up on the nesting. That is so nice to have.

    Any thoughts out there? Solutions? Am I missing something painfully simple and am just too tired to see it?

    Thanks for all offers of help in advance.

    Chris

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    Revit BIM Consultant Alfredo Medina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Attaching some images would help to understand this issue better.

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    All AUGI, all the time Alex Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    My initail thoughts are about the height of the cut plane in the nested family - ensure the cutplane within the nested family is correct
    Alex Page
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    I could stop if I wanted to rbcameron1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Could it be an issue with the visibility settings in the nested object? Double checking that may uncover the issue. Otherwise it sounds almost exactly like what I do for my curtain wall mullions. I have a basic mullion, inside that, I have a nested detail component (with visibility adjustments) and inside that nested DC are my actual drawn lines. It took awhile but I had to include some filled regions/masking regions to block out some areas I didn't want shown in certain views. I had to retrace my steps in other words.
    RB Cameron, AIA, LEED AP, EDAC
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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Will submit images later - on a deadline right now. Thanks for the suggestions. Height of the cut plane in the family - hmmm. does that set the cut plane for the family when placed in the project? Will look at that.

    I have double-checked all visibilities, etc. Still no good. These families are so intricate - it's easy to miss some little thing. Will look again.

    BTW, to RB, I have tried the DC / masking regions thing. One warning - if you do a lot of renovation work and use "Show Previous & New" with an override for existing items, you get weird effects. For instance I like to use the convention of a dark grey poche for all existing walls, etc. and have the new stuff be different patterns for wall types. Existing windows with masks and DCs will show the DC or white mask. So I have been backing off from them and using modeling to do the heavy lifting. I try to use only modeling, lines and material assignments for what shows up in coarse, medium and fine. I also have found the DCs and masks can add a lot of weight to the family.

    Will keep you all posted.

    Chris

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    All AUGI, all the time Alex Page's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Quote Originally Posted by CBroda View Post
    ...... Height of the cut plane in the family - hmmm. does that set the cut plane for the family when placed in the project?....
    Yes: the cutplane height in the family is how the family is represented in the project when cut . Apparently this is so Revit doesnt have to work out the graphics for every family in the project: it sort of has it "saved" within the family (if that makes sense). When using nested families you have to be very careful to ensure that the representation is correct within the nested family AND within the final family. It does get confusing!

    For a more in-depth view of this - refer to this blog (my personal favorite) http://grevity.blogspot.com/2012/10/cut-cut-cut.html
    Alex Page
    RevitWorks Ltd
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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Thank you, Alex. Took a quick look at the blog entry - brilliant! I'll look at that in my family later. My presumption is that we need to keep the cut plane consistent in all the nested items and the main family. All to be cut at the same height. Unless of course I don't want them all to show at the same height. Wow. Getting more complex here. The blog entry shows the elevations and cut planes perfectly. I need to sketch that out on mine to judge the best cut plane height.

    BTW would the work plane have anything to do with it? I set those differently for certain modeled items based on whether I want them to show in a cut or not. Back to the lab for more testing!

    Chris

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    Default Re: Nested family cuts wall below midpoint of nested family but not above (in plan)

    Well I finally gave it a try and IT WORKED! Thanks again, Alex. NOW, if only I could get the same result in section. Tried using a void but even if you nest the void and set the visibility to only medium and fine, it still cuts the wall in coarse. Let me back up. I am trying to have the exterior trim look like it cuts the wall. In plan, it works, but in section it doesn't.

    So one question I have - can you have a void that only cuts in medium and fine views? Otherwise, any other suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Chris

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