New AutoCAD / Solidworks Workstation

[jboddez391673]

Hello,
I spoke with Autodesk's tech support group about recommended hardware for our new workstation, and they suggested I ask the question on the forums since they only hear about things that "don't work". Here is an outline of the current system I am running:

Dell T5500 workstation
Windows 7 64-bit
(2) Xeon E5506 @ 2.13 GHz
12GB RAM
nVidia Quadro FX4800 1.5 GB
160GB 10k RPM hard drive
(2) 21" monitors @ 1920 x 1080 and 1920 x 1200

I have been experiencing slowdowns and crashes on this system with the large model I am working on, which is about 22MB in size, has roughly 130 layers and consists of a full 3D pipe model (using the Trimble Pipedesigner 3D add-on), concrete structure, 3D components for supplied process equipment, and several design layouts from the consultant (frozen most of the time). We are only 1/3 of the way into this project and would like to grow the model through the remainder of the timeframe to include HVAC duct, electrical components, heating lines, water lines, etc.

Since we are hiring a draftsman soon, we need to get a new system and might as well get a decent upgrade to our current setup. I have built several computers in the past for personal use, but management here has asked me to confirm with other groups before ordering to make sure I am getting the appropriate hardware (don't want to buy a lemon). Here is what I have planned:

Customised Dell T3600 (as suggested by our IT group)
Windows 7-64-bit
Xeon E5-1620 (four-core 3.6 GHz)
32GB of 1600MHz ECC ram
Quadro K5000 4GB
256GB SSD
(2) 30" monitors at 2560 x 1600 (possibly a 3rd using one of the 21" monitors above)

Should this system be sufficient for the model that I am working on? The Autodesk tech support mentinoed that there has been some stability issues with the nVidia K-series cards, do you have this experience or is it because they only hear about when things go wrong and this is a common card to use? Based on benchmark reviews I was leaning towards this card as opposed to an ATI FirePro W8000/W9000, would you suggest otherwise? Would a K4000 be plenty for what I am doing (assuming it doesn't have the same stability issues)?

Also, due to someone leaving the company I may be working on some Solidworks drafting down the road for some miscellaneous metal components. I haven't looked into this software's requirements as this is fresh news to me. I presume the new system above should be able to handle Solidworks no problem based on my past experience with Pro/E. I believe the work will include smaller but more detailed models compared to the AutoCAD work I am doing now.

Any and all feedback is appreciated. I will post this on the Autodesk and Cadalyst forums for feedback there as well.

[dgorsman]

22 MB is *big* for an AutoCAD model (for reference, our piping models are in the 2 - 5 MB range), so more money on hardware isn't going to help as much as good modeling practices. Depending on your modeling software, you might not be using half of that 32 GB RAM - check your RAM useage periodically and see where you're at. The high-end Quadro card will provide some benefit with Solidworks but won't do much for AutoCAD considering lower cost alternatives.

[cadtag]

Dell -- meh- it departments buy them, but that's only because they know the name and feel 'safe'. Look at Xi computers for better bang and more passionate people.

Xeon - double waste of money -- no more effective than an i5 / i7, but requires you to (a) pay more and (b) buy mor expensive ECC ram - which has no benefit in using CAD.

SSD - good for booting and apps,, but you'll want another drive for data

Quadro -- might be nice for solidworks, but AMD (aka ATI) seem IMO to be a better choice for AutoCAD. Nvidia benchmarks better, and is possibly a better gaming card, but there's not much (none?) GPU processing in Acad - so there's a limit to the bang-buck ratio there.

30" monitor(s) - see Ralph Grabowski's comments on upfront ezine. I'd probably go with (1) 27" or 30" with a 24" on either side.

and what dgorsman said about modeling practices. the way to eat elephants is in small bites, and like all CAD work - strategy planning ahead pays off at the end.

[jboddez391673]

Thanks for the feedback!

I have only been using AutoCAD for a few months now, in terms of splitting up the model into several smaller files and Xref'ing together, am I able to modify the Xref components in the overall model or do I need to open them up individually to make changes? Reason being is that as I add more and more components into the model, I sometimes need to make changes for some based on others that were previously modeled. Having everything in one file makes this simple for referencing between components, but has the obvious slow performance I have been experiencing. The workaround would be to make measurements in the overall model and modify in the individual components, but this involves some chance for user error if I type it in wrong :P.

For cadtag's comments, we have a server where all project data is stored and backed up, so no need for a second local hard drive. The i7 or i5 instead of a Xeon might be well worth looking into to save a few dollars (or many). I'm starting to lean towards the K4000 instead of the K5000 to avoid total overkill. No point shooting a mouse with a cannon.

As for Ralph Grabowski's thread that you referenced on monitor setup, do you have a link to it?

[Wanderer]

As for Ralph Grabowski's thread that you referenced on monitor setup, do you have a link to it?

http://www.upfrontezine.com/

If you search for Monitor, you'll get lots of hits... you probably want the article in Issue #786 that CADTag was talking about.

[cadtag]

http://www.upfrontezine.com/current.htm

update I see wanderer beat me with the link. Bookmark the current.htm page though,-- Ralph is always worth the time it takes to read him.

All our project data is on the server, and only on the server - but 256Gb is going to be way to small IMO. People accumulate a lot of stuff, and a lot of that does not belong on a server, or need to be backed up by corporate.

I don't do solidworks, but with autocad you can open multiple sessions of Acad, and run them on separate monitors, at work i'm running (2) 24", and at home (1) 27" & an older 19". Usually with two or mosre sessions of CAD running concurrently, and frequently a couple of drawings in each session.

Model information (civil) is separated between different base sheets by system, and referenced together as needed. remember to use Overlay rather than attach for Xrefs.... and you can use circular references so that fil A references file B, and file B references file A.

Unless and untill Acad figures out how to efficiently utilize GPU processing, 8 CPU cores, and 64 Gb of ram, keeping everything in a single model is going to create performance problems. and those problems will escalate throughout the job. Better to bite the bullet now and strategically separate model compnents/systems and reference together as needed.

[jboddez391673]

My new workstation just showed up last week and I thought I should give an update on the specs I decided on and first impressions:

Customized Dell T3600
Windows 7 Pro
i7-4770 3.4 GHz quad core
32GB DDR3 ram
Quadro K4000
256GB Samsung SSD
39" Seiki LED television at 4K resolution
21" monitor @ 1200 x 1920 (from previous setup, in portrait mode)

So far I am quite happy with this setup. The speed has definitely improved. Hard to comment on stability at this point since I have only used it for a couple days, and most of that was importing settings and setting things up. I broke up my model into a few different files and x-ref'd them together as suggested. This helped speed things up even on the previous system, so it will become a regular practice for me.

The biggest difference is running a 4K TV. There is significantly more space to work on the model. All of the controls and info bars are neatly around the perimeter of the screen, and now I don't even need to hide tabs like the properties or layer info to keep my modelspace viewport quite large. There is enough detail to see what is happening even when zoomed out to see the whole project I am working on. You still need to zoom in to work on things for more detail and ease of selecting the right object, but that is expected.

The only drawback of this monitor so far is its limitation to run at 30 Hz at 4K. For what I am doing (drafting) this is hardly even noticable. For gaming or similar high speed action, it would be more of a concern. The picture is very bright and vibrant, no complaints on the colors (not that they are critical for what I am doing, just need to see one is different from the other). I just had to turn the sharpness down to 0 and adjust the brightness and contrast down a bit to make it similar to my other monitor. I am sitting roughly 20-24" away from the screen and it is easily usable without neck or eye strain (yet). And to answer the obvious question, the cost is less than most 30" computer monitors out there, just do a search for it (not sure if I am supposed to post links to external sources). I would highly recommend a similar setup to others who are considering a new workstation or upgrading an existing one. Just make sure your video card supports it, part of the reason I went with the K4000 as the lowest Quadro card that would do 4K.

One "Windows" issue with the high resolution is using other standard monitors at the same time. As far as I know, only Windows 8.1 is able to set DPI differently on multiples monitors. I have my text set at 125% to be usable on the 4K screen, but this makes folders on the second monitor quite big and blocky. A minor setback that will hopefully be addressed with a future update to Windows 7.

[alan445452]

Does that Seiki monitor work OK with a shaded solid model? What's it like to rotate it?

Hello,
I spoke with Autodesk's tech support group about recommended hardware for our new workstation, and they suggested I ask the question on the forums since they only hear about things that "don't work". Here is an outline of the current system I am running:

Dell T5500 workstation
Windows 7 64-bit
(2) Xeon E5506 @ 2.13 GHz
12GB RAM
nVidia Quadro FX4800 1.5 GB
160GB 10k RPM hard drive
(2) 21" monitors @ 1920 x 1080 and 1920 x 1200

I have been experiencing slowdowns and crashes on this system with the large model I am working on, which is about 22MB in size, has roughly 130 layers and consists of a full 3D pipe model (using the Trimble Pipedesigner 3D add-on), concrete structure, 3D components for supplied process equipment, and several design layouts from the consultant (frozen most of the time). We are only 1/3 of the way into this project and would like to grow the model through the remainder of the timeframe to include HVAC duct, electrical components, heating lines, water lines, etc.

Since we are hiring a draftsman soon, we need to get a new system and might as well get a decent upgrade to our current setup. I have built several computers in the past for personal use, but management here has asked me to confirm with other groups before ordering to make sure I am getting the appropriate hardware (don't want to buy a lemon). Here is what I have planned:

Customised Dell T3600 (as suggested by our IT group)
Windows 7-64-bit
Xeon E5-1620 (four-core 3.6 GHz)
32GB of 1600MHz ECC ram
Quadro K5000 4GB
256GB SSD
(2) 30" monitors at 2560 x 1600 (possibly a 3rd using one of the 21" monitors above)

Should this system be sufficient for the model that I am working on? The Autodesk tech support mentinoed that there has been some stability issues with the nVidia K-series cards, do you have this experience or is it because they only hear about when things go wrong and this is a common card to use? Based on benchmark reviews I was leaning towards this card as opposed to an ATI FirePro W8000/W9000, would you suggest otherwise? Would a K4000 be plenty for what I am doing (assuming it doesn't have the same stability issues)?

Also, due to someone leaving the company I may be working on some Solidworks drafting down the road for some miscellaneous metal components. I haven't looked into this software's requirements as this is fresh news to me. I presume the new system above should be able to handle Solidworks no problem based on my past experience with Pro/E. I believe the work will include smaller but more detailed models compared to the AutoCAD work I am doing now.

Any and all feedback is appreciated. I will post this on the Autodesk and Cadalyst forums for feedback there as well.