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Thread: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

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    Default Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    All,

    Something crossed my mind a few minutes ago, and before I spend ample time testing to figure out the answer, I figured I would hit the forums. Any insight would be appreciated.

    QUESTION: Let's say I am working in Revit Structure, and I have the Architectural Linked in. Now we receive a site model. My question is, is there any difference between 1. me linking the site model into mine directly, and option 2. Having the Architect link the site into their model as an attachment so that it carries through to my model??? Not sure if there will be different visibility controls, or drastic file size difference, performance issues?

    Thanks in advance

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    You will have very little control over the site model (visibility/graphics etc.) if it is an attached linked model to the architectural model. It is better to link both models to yours individually. You'll probably need to work out the shared coordinates of the models to make sure they will land in the correct location.

    Typically you should import the architect's model Auto - origin to origin before you begin any work. This ensures your models are aligned. Then you can use Acquire Coordinates to define shared coordinates, if the architect has done so between their model and survey data. If they have you can import the site file using Auto - By shared coordinates. If it's working the site model should show up in the correct location. You need to discuss this with the architecture team.

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    Steve,

    First of all thank you for the quick response. Now, I assumed that having very little VG control would be the case, but that's what got me thinking. If there would in fact be a difference in model performance between the two methods then why not keep the model as light as possible since I won't need to alter the visibility of the site with the exception of turning it completely on or completely off. Plus, as you mentioned, I would be able to avoid the coordination issue if I received the site as an attachment in the Arch model. Right? So it really depends on how much of a performance difference there is if any...

    Also, the workflow you outlined here is in fact what I do in out office (import arch model auto origin to origin before beginning work) but I do have a few quick question regarding this. Firstly, must the architect publish coordinates in any way before I acquire from theirs? Or they simply need to go into their site model, acquire from their arch model, and on my end I just acquire from their arch model, and link the site auto shared?

    My second question is regarding their coordinate set-up. While reviewing their model I noticed that they have placed the project base-point at sea level (this is their first project in Revit) and while I have been working in Revit for a few years, I have never been on the receiving end of a model set-up in this manner. Will this affect the work/shared coordinates in any way with the workflow as stated above? I figured it wouldn't mess anything up since we will be acquiring coordinates from them anyway and we did not begin work before hand (just a weird way to set up a project, ignoring the survey point and all). So we will just have an odd coordinate system, but we will be coordinated correct? Thanks

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    Using Acquire Coordinates won't really change anything if the architect hasn't sorted that out already. As long as you are using Auto - Origin to Origin between your models the file relationship is understood. That doesn't help if the building was "L" shaped and they redesign into an "Oval"...that's going to result in redesign. Shared coordinates help immensely if the building is repositioned on the site, not if the building's form is redesigned. If there is no expectation to export your model data to another format like Navisworks for example then acquiring coordinates may not be necessary at all. If you expect to document anything relating to survey coordinate data you'll want to make sure you do sort out shared coordinates though.

    Unfortunately it's hard to say with certainty what you'll experience without seeing models. If you are interested I've written about the subject of Shared Coordinates on my blog, THIS LINK is a summary post on the topic. Read the Project Coordination - Early Days post if you want to consider an all trades relationship. The key to getting it right is to discuss this with everyone on the team.

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    I've read the "Project Coordination - Early Days" before and it helped to confirm the fact that linking origin to origin would be sufficient (provided no one moves the building). I would like to confirm something though. We start our project by linking their model in, origin to origin (this being the startup point of the project base point). From that point forward, the only way we could become "uncoordinated" is if they literally move all elements on screen (the whole building)? Or if they move the project base point while it is "clipped"? If I'm correct with my thinking then this would cause the origin in their project to move, therefore un-aligning all of their work with ours. Are these the only ways we could become uncoordinated?

    As far as Navisworks, we wouldn't be able to export with project internal with this method?

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    Quote Originally Posted by ballj
    ...From that point forward, the only way we could become "uncoordinated" is if they literally move all elements on screen (the whole building)?
    Yes, that's a "redesign" of the building not repositioning the building on site. If they really just wanted the building in a different location they should move the building link in the site model instead followed by publishing coordinates to the building file.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballj
    ...Or if they move the project base point while it is "clipped"?...
    No Origin to Origin is the "file origin to file origin", not the Project Base Point. If they move their project base point you'll only see a change in the relative position between survey and project points IF you have Acquired Coordinates.

    Quote Originally Posted by ballj
    ...As far as Navisworks, we wouldn't be able to export with project internal with this method?...
    Exporting without Shared Coordinates will not guarantee that the Revit models align with other trade's files or the site/survey data. Models that are aligned using Origin to Origin as a basis for beginning work should line up but you don't have that same assurance if/when sub-contractors work gets factored in.

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Stafford View Post
    No Origin to Origin is the "file origin to file origin", not the Project Base Point. If they move their project base point you'll only see a change in the relative position between survey and project points IF you have Acquired Coordinates.
    I was under the impression that if you move the project base point while it is "clilpped" that you are essentially moving the startup point for it / the origin

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    The project "moves" but the file origin never changes...

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    Ok good to know. Now for argument's sake let's say you start a project. You have the Project Base Point, the Survey Point, and the Origin (all aligned by default at the "Startup Location"). Now, you move the Survey Point. Next you move the Project Base Point while it is "Clipped" from point A to point B. Then you unclip the project base point and move it again. I thought you would now still have 3 locations: 1. The new Survey Point location, 2. the new Project Base Point Location, and 3. the NEW origin location (now located at point B) because it moved with the clipped Project Base Point. You are saying that in actuality you will now have 4 locations? These being 1. The new Survey Point location, 2. the new Project Base Point Location, 3. the original Origin point (remaining at point A) and 4. a new arbitrary "Startup Location" (point B where you moved the clipped Project Base point to)?

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    Default Re: Revit Link Directly or have as an Attachment in a Linked File

    When you deal with hypothetical situations you can spin your wheels a bit instead of try to "do something practical", solve a specific situation. To indulge this a bit...restating your steps below:

    Starting with the Project Base Point, the Survey Point, and the Origin all aligned by default at the "Startup Location"
    1. Move the Survey Point. (assuming "clipped"?, moved to point "C", see far left image)
    2. Move the Project Base Point while it is "Clipped" from point "A" to point "B" (see middle left image)
    3. Unclip the project base point and move it again (see middle right image)

    Quote Originally Posted by ballj
    I thought you would now still have 3 locations
    1. The new Survey Point location (Yes)
    2. New Project Base Point Location (Yes)
    3. NEW origin location (now located at point B) because it moved with the clipped Project Base Point. (no, origin is still at origin)

    Quote Originally Posted by ballj
    You are saying that in actuality you will now have 4 locations? (My response: No)
    1. The new Survey Point location (unchanged)
    2. New Project Base Point Location (marking a different spot, referencing prior clipped location)
    3. Original Origin point, remaining at point A (yes, this is still the file origin)
    4. New arbitrary "Startup Location" at point B where the clipped Project Base moved to) (no, point "B" is irrelevant now)

    Practical stuff
    • The Survey Point allows us to define where an imported CAD file's origin is relative to your model (CLIPPED)
    • The Survey Point allows us to identify a benchmark location on the site instead or referencing source file's origin (UNCLIPPED)
    • The Project Base Point does not ever "need" to be moved (CLIPPED) normally
    • The Project Base Point will allow us to move our project on the site to reposition it (CLIPPED) but the file origin isn't changed
    • The Project Base Point will let us identify a location that Spot Elevations and Spot Coordinates can reference

    Let's say you design a house, import a survey and it's off to the right and above your building. If you use Acquire Coordinates on the survey file you should find the Survey Point (CLIPPED) moves to mark the origin of the source survey data file (sometimes this is quite far away). The Project Base Point (CLIPPED) can be used to reposition the building over the site. Just drag or move it with specific values. What you see moving is the "Project". The file origin is untouched and you should see that the linked survey file isn't moving either. If you import a small origin "marker" file using Auto - Origin to Origin you'll find that it lands at the Project Base Point. Now if you move the Project Base Point (UNCLIPPED) you see that you can move the icon to another location but it still references the "file origin" (see far right image).

    That approach works for a single building on site but is not very effective for multiple buildings on site. The approach I advocate where we create a site file that is coordinated with survey data and serves as the master coordinator for multiple buildings which are linked into this master site file is much more effective and versatile. Since this subject can be confusing enough I advocate using the same approach for any project so I can learn one technique and use it over and over, since it works for any project.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; 2013-09-07 at 12:57 AM.

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