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Thread: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

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    Certified AUGI Addict jaberwok's Avatar
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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedg View Post
    Nicely put (and congrats on your first post).
    That's the "technical experience" I was talking about, you need to know what you're drawing, and how it's built/made.

    This applies to most drafting positions and it depends on the size of the company and kind of work they do.
    If you are designing wigits, than you need to know about wigits.
    If you are an architectural drafter/designer, you may not be well-versed in civil or electrical design, and that's ok.

    It's even better if you can work in many disciplines, which only comes with experience and life-lessons.

    I work for an A/E firm where we have many government clients that will recieve our products, which need to be in certain cad standards.
    So besides needing to know about what you are designing, a good cad designer needs to be able to work with different standards, teamed with different disciplines, and be able to work with complex work-flow configurations (such as xrefs, sheet sets, etc).
    Yes, but -
    if you don't understand what you're drawing and how it is made, the rest is just ticking boxes and producing a mess.
    If you don't know why a steel component should be be forged or turned you're in danger of producing an engine crankshaft that splits in half the first time a driver puts his foot on the accelerator.

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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaberwok View Post
    Yes, but -
    if you don't understand what you're drawing and how it is made, the rest is just ticking boxes and producing a mess.
    If you don't know why a steel component should be be forged or turned you're in danger of producing an engine crankshaft that splits in half the first time a driver puts his foot on the accelerator.
    I agree, did something in my post make you think othewise?
    I was just adding to what I think a professional drafter/designer needs to know to succeed, depending on the size and type of company you work for.

    Maybe the "most drafting positions" got me.. I guess I mean the level of what you need to know depends on what you're drawing.

    I work with structural engineers, I am not one. I can create a whole set of drawings with little to no input from them, but when it comes to actually sizing beams/columns and rebar size and spacing (etc), they need to provide me that. I know how the thing is going to get built and what gets field/shop designed and what we are responsible for etc.

    So yes to do well as a drafter/designer, you need to know what you drawing/designing and how it's made/built.
    I haven't worked out in the field as a steel fabricator/erector or foundation contractor, but have been around it long enough to know how it's done.

    Last edited by tedg; 2014-03-24 at 05:17 PM. Reason: added note

  3. #33
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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedg View Post
    I agree, did something in my post make you think othewise?
    I know and "no".
    Quote Originally Posted by tedg View Post
    I was just adding to what I think a professional drafter/designer needs to know to succeed, depending on the size and type of company you work for.

    Maybe the "most drafting positions" got me.. I guess I mean the level of what you need to know depends on what you're drawing.

    I work with structural engineers, I am not one. I can create a whole set of drawings with little to no input from them, but when it comes to actually sizing beams/columns and rebar size and spacing (etc), they need to provide me that. I know how the thing is going to get built and what gets field/shop designed and what we are responsible for etc.

    So yes to do well as a drafter/designer, you need to know what you drawing/designing and how it's made/built.
    I haven't worked out in the field as a steel fabricator/erector or foundation contractor, but have been around it long enough to know how it's done.
    I was in mech - mainly machinery, etc. but occasionally roped in for structural work. Once I had to start drawing a steel supporting structure before the engineers sized the beams so I had to make guesses. I undersized one beam - I forgot that the 50,000 litre water tank would be full of water.

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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    I'm about to date myself with this comment - I started as an apprentice draftsman in the mid 70's, long before CAD. There were basic skills that you needed to learn to be an effective draftsman. None of those skills are taught today even though they still apply! I tell my engineers that just because they have Microsoft Word on their computer that doesn't make them a Word Processor!! Likewise, having AutoCAD or C3D on the computer doesn't make them a CAD Tech!! Too many are taught to push a button but have no concept of why they push the button or what really happens when that button is pushed. There is something to be said for learning how to do things "long hand" and then applying technology to make it faster, easier, and more accurate!

    I started using AutoCAD with Version 2.18! (Ancient history!) It's sad to see the art of drafting disappearing!!

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    Certifiable AUGI Addict tedg's Avatar
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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mlg View Post
    I'm about to date myself with this comment - I started as an apprentice draftsman in the mid 70's, long before CAD. There were basic skills that you needed to learn to be an effective draftsman.
    Wow you are old!

    Quote Originally Posted by mlg View Post
    There is something to be said for learning how to do things "long hand" and then applying technology to make it faster, easier, and more accurate!
    Totally agree, board drafting experience should be mandatory, you learn fast you don't want to hand-layout and draft things more than once = better drawing organization and forethought. Board drafting was a requirement before I took my cad classes a long time ago. I had been out of the board drafting-game for a while when I went back to school, and they made me take basic drafting again just to sharpen my skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlg View Post

    I started using AutoCAD with Version 2.18! (Ancient history!) It's sad to see the art of drafting disappearing!!
    R12 for me, but R14 was out.. so not that long ago. I think the art of drafting still exists even in AutoCAD by true, passionate drafters. However money and time are usually factors and no one wants to pay for pretty drawings anymore

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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by mlg View Post
    I'm about to date myself with this comment - I started as an apprentice draftsman in the mid 70's, long before CAD. There were basic skills that you needed to learn to be an effective draftsman. None of those skills are taught today even though they still apply! I tell my engineers that just because they have Microsoft Word on their computer that doesn't make them a Word Processor!! Likewise, having AutoCAD or C3D on the computer doesn't make them a CAD Tech!! Too many are taught to push a button but have no concept of why they push the button or what really happens when that button is pushed. There is something to be said for learning how to do things "long hand" and then applying technology to make it faster, easier, and more accurate!

    I started using AutoCAD with Version 2.18! (Ancient history!) It's sad to see the art of drafting disappearing!!
    +1, [young'un ]

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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    I can't speak for other parts of the country but here in Pgh. drafting standards, procedures, and quality was a MUST 30 years ago! It absolutely
    had to be done right, back in the 80's ...... Yes I'm old, and old school. I started using CAD systems before PC's were invented
    and the drafters in those days were real drafters. I worked at Westinghouse R&D. Those drafters road me hard, and I have to admit they did good work.
    Now, what I see today makes me sick. Like one poster said, give a guy a computer, and anyone can do drafting work, right? NO WAY....
    What's even worst is that NO ONE in management knows this. Cad files from the web are filled with garbage. I have not found a single
    person in the last 4 years I have been freelancing that would even has a clue how to make a professional looking drawing, keeping
    the CAD files neat and orderly, all with in the electrical, or electronic discipline. Several of the companies I've worked with, have handed me
    files to "clean up". I many time, just delete everything and start over. If you understand what I'm talking about, unless you manage the group,
    good luck to you, your in an uphill battle....
    ERIC
    Pgh. PA
    Last of the mohicans!!!
    PS thanks for letting me vent.....

  8. #38
    Mod / Salary / SM Wanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vw4x4619593 View Post
    I can't speak for other parts of the country but here in Pgh. drafting standards, procedures, and quality was a MUST 30 years ago! It absolutely
    had to be done right, back in the 80's ...... Yes I'm old, and old school. I started using CAD systems before PC's were invented
    and the drafters in those days were real drafters. I worked at Westinghouse R&D. Those drafters road me hard, and I have to admit they did good work.
    Now, what I see today makes me sick. Like one poster said, give a guy a computer, and anyone can do drafting work, right? NO WAY....
    What's even worst is that NO ONE in management knows this. Cad files from the web are filled with garbage. I have not found a single
    person in the last 4 years I have been freelancing that would even has a clue how to make a professional looking drawing, keeping
    the CAD files neat and orderly, all with in the electrical, or electronic discipline. Several of the companies I've worked with, have handed me
    files to "clean up". I many time, just delete everything and start over. If you understand what I'm talking about, unless you manage the group,
    good luck to you, your in an uphill battle....
    ERIC
    Pgh. PA
    Last of the mohicans!!!
    PS thanks for letting me vent.....
    90% of my career has been cleaning up other peoples drawings and models. Whew.
    I think that even when people KNOW best-practices, they assume that they have always done things that way, and therefore, never check the things they start with (templates, blocks, etc).

    Rejecting submittals for CAD Standards violations seems to be a huge shock to most companies. If I say 'your blocks aren't bylayer' they get all offended and say yes, they are, I know how to make blocks! And then I sit them down and make them look... and they're not... and they go all sheepish, oh, I grabbed those from one of my old projects and didn't check.
    Well, no kidding... I've had that same conversation with 90% of the CAD Managers in St. Louis.

    So, yes, we do have some education problems, but, it's not just that, even when folks know better, it's hard to be mindful of every single detail on a project. That's why we need lots of checks and balances.

    Some stuff can't be found with a standards check on my end... like, finding a section mark, and then seeing that there's no corresponding detail on the details sheet.


    ~stepping off of soapbox~ But, I digress.
    Last edited by Wanderer; 2014-04-04 at 08:16 PM. Reason: I can't spell
    Melanie Stone
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    Archibus, FMS/FMInteract and AutoCAD Expert (I use BricsCAD, Revit, Tandem, and Planon, too)
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    not all those who wander are lost

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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    "money and time are usually factors and no one wants to pay for pretty drawings anymore "
    This is all to true, but they pay now or pay a lot more latter. If drawing are a mess, it takes longer if figure
    things out, machine shop charge more to build. Do a similar job, make the drawing correct but messy and
    different, and it will cost a lot more, even the second time around. Send a similar drawing done right with minor
    changes, and it will cost a lot less. This is the situation a lot of business managers have no clue about today.

    ERIc
    PGH> PA

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    Certified AUGI Addict jaberwok's Avatar
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    Default Re: What exactly is taught in current drafting classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vw4x4619593 View Post
    "money and time are usually factors and no one wants to pay for pretty drawings anymore "
    This is all to true, but they pay now or pay a lot more latter. If drawing are a mess, it takes longer if figure
    things out, machine shop charge more to build. Do a similar job, make the drawing correct but messy and
    different, and it will cost a lot more, even the second time around. Send a similar drawing done right with minor
    changes, and it will cost a lot less. This is the situation a lot of business managers have no clue about today.

    ERIc
    PGH> PA
    Speaking of which - does anyone remember the position of "D.O. Checker"?

    [O.T. - excuse my ignorance but where is "Pgh" [besides being in Pennsylvania].

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