Office Standards VS Discipline Standards

[CharcoalWraith]

I'm not sure if this would be correct place for this query or not but...I work in an MEP-FP firm that has recently been getting more and more into Telecommunications/Security/AudioVisual and thus we've begun expanding that department. I've been charged with incorporating their symbols and schedules (etc.) into our office standards, but we've having some conflicts when it comes to the symbol list. What they want as a basic symbol list is turning more and more into a large, very detailed schedule, which is fine, except out two IT engineers are saying that this is what's typically on a cover sheet for their respective trades. I've tried trying to find a sample of some IT cover pages or even a generalization for what should be on a cover sheet but turned up empty-handed. The rest of our firm will only showcase general notes, a simple symbol list, abbreviations and a drawing list for the cover sheet, and then on the schedule sheets they'll go into detail about symbols and the like.Is there a general standard for IT/Security/AV somewhere to reference what should and should not be on the cover page?

[cadtag]

Basically, your two IT engineers area saying they want to do what they are used to, regardless of company practices/conventions. I would say that if they want to make something different other than the company norm their own standard, _they_ need to provide a published, documented source that matches what they are asking for. There appears to be nothing in the Uniform Drawing System (UDS Standard) that describes their preferred practice.

I don't think you'll find any authoritative voice that defines what does or does not belong on a cover sheet. That varies widely between organizations, and often varies between jobs. Our current 'official' company covers have minimal amounts of information -- basically nothing but the What, Who, and Where, and usually an Index of Sheets. Large multi-discipline jobs will use a separate sheet for the Index of Drawings. Code information may be there as well, but often that too is on a different sheet. some of out other offices, that practice in a narrow set of jobs and locations, have their own non-standard covers that work within their specific environment. Mostly legacy thinking from pre-acquisition days.

And especially with multi-discipline jobs, Legends and Abbreviations end up as a separate sheet to have room for everyone's symbols and discipline specific abbreviations. Cluttering the hell out of the cover just looks ugly and puts the company in a bad light.

[CharcoalWraith]

I was under the impression as well that they should provide a document that states what they're looking for. This "symbol list" of theirs is a work-in-progress and as of right now, they're just adding and adding columns to it, and the more that gets added, the more it is a schedule and the less my superior and I want it on the cover page. One of the two IT engineers is pretty mellow about what ends up where but the other is adamant that this information is strictly for the cover sheet.

Half of what I do in the company is update standards and emphasize that the drawings should look as neat and professional as possible, and I too agree that cluttering up the cover is no good and reflects badly on the company, but if this is standard practice for IT/Security/AV, I'm not sure what to do.

I appreciate the advice and knowledge of what your office is doing as it makes sense.

[tedg]

Often times at our office, in cases like yours, each discipline would have thier own symbols, abbrevations and notes sheet in the set.
The general symbols are on the cover sheet such as elevation markers, section cut markers, room tags.

Using National Cad Standards as a convention (not knowing what you use)

an example would be sheet number T-001:
Telecommunications, General, sheet 01 in the sequence, and would contain such discipline-specific symbols, notes, abbreviations.
And if they ran out of room, they could have a T-002 and so on.

Then you would just need to make sure their symbols are following your company's cad standards, but not clutter up the cover sheet for all disciplines.

Just another thing to think about.

[cadtag]

... One of the two IT engineers is pretty mellow about what ends up where but the other is adamant that this information is strictly for the cover sheet....

If Engineer B is adamant that it MUST be his way, then it's up to him to provide authoritative documentation from a national/international standards source, ASME, ISO, ANSI, etc. Or run his own firm, where he's the final arbiter of company standards and policy. Otherwise he needs to recognize that he's an employee of the firm, and park his ego at the door.

Demanding what he wants, when he wants, how he wants, just 'because', is nonsense.


What are the questions that need to be answered on the cover sheet to a set of contract drawings?

Who? for one, as in both Who is the client, and Who is the design firm.

What? is next, presumably covered with a project name (and phase if relevant), possibly expanding with an Index of drawings, the ToC to the set.

When? is a pretty important question to answer. Depending on organization procedures, it could be contract signing date, month/year, or date the set was issued.

Where? is the final question that really needs an up-front answer. After all, few Key West based contractors are apt to bid on a job on Michigan's Upper Peninnsula

No different really, than the initial paragraph of a news story. The _rest_ of the sheets exist to answer the question of How? - so cluttering up the cover is really not needed.

[CAD_Vader]

Often times at our office, in cases like yours, each discipline would have thier own symbols, abbrevations and notes sheet in the set.
The general symbols are on the cover sheet such as elevation markers, section cut markers, room tags.

Using National Cad Standards as a convention (not knowing what you use)

an example would be sheet number T-001:
Telecommunications, General, sheet 01 in the sequence, and would contain such discipline-specific symbols, notes, abbreviations.
And if they ran out of room, they could have a T-002 and so on.

Then you would just need to make sure their symbols are following your company's cad standards, but not clutter up the cover sheet for all disciplines.

Just another thing to think about.

This is exactly how we work.

I work for a Telecommunications Consultant on the West Coast (Calif.). We do extensive work with architects and engineers for the education market. When we do work with A&E's, the only thing we have on the cover sheet is our contact information. We have our own "General Notes" sheet T0.1 which contains our general notes (pull boxes, grounding, raceway etc.), scope of work, sheet index, abbreviations, and symbol lists. Granted we can have 6 symbol lists or more (data, intercom, security, AV, pathways, cabinet/raceway, etc.) on the "General Notes" sheet. This sheet also contains our cable legend, alternate bids, existing utilities (where applicable), and seismic anchorage information.

I've attached an image of our general notes, only the viewport view to hide certain info. We pack a lot on a 42x30 sheet of paper, and sometimes we still run out. Granted this sheet was for a VERY large office and conference center...somewhere around 90k sq. ft.Capture.JPG

This way keeps the cover sheet out of my hands and the architect can make it look however they want. Granted when you come in with 45 pages the cover sheet index starts looking a little ridiculous but it is what it is.

Hope this helps.