Hi there good people. Sorry I didn't get back to this thread. The project was crazy rushed out the door, and now I'm on a different one.

@Steve: I didn't realize until you said it that it must be an in-place family. I will remember that for another time. Thanks.
@angel.velez: I will investigate getting permission to send Autodesk the file.
@jjbenstead: thanks for the suggestion, yes I had tried that... I strongly suggest you do read all the responses before replying. Otherwise threads just get longer and longer with no new information.