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Thread: Verbiage and nomenclature

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    Certified AUGI Addict cadtag's Avatar
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    Default Verbiage and nomenclature

    Does anyone know of an authoritative source that talks about the use of NEW, PROPOSED, PROVIDE, etc. in construction drawings? Basically verbiage that covers labeling of non-existing material in AEC drawings. I recall at one point having a Navy/US Govt document that discussed that, and provided some strong rationale for not using "propoosed", "new", "install" etc. in contract drawings.

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Interesting we have this conservation sometimes. Questions is how do you then differ between totally new, remove and replace, remodel or revise existing, and leave existing alone don't damage etc

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Well, that's the question. If the callout says "INSTALL HVAC something" does the contractor buy it and then install it, or can he reasonably claim that the engineer/owner/etc is expected to get the equipment and he's just going to hook it up? Does skipping verbs/adjectives in our labeling decrease our liability? or do we need a dissertation for each and every label to minimize ambiguity?

    For example, I've got a minor sewer refurbishment job, replacing old manholes with new ones, and taking out the old clay pipe and laying new PVC. old upstream manholes that are not being replaced are not ID'ed or labeled in the sheets -- just the survey information shown. The new manholes are lableled with MH #1 etc. does throwing the extra word NEW add anything? (Nothing on contrsact drawing should ever say 'PROPOSED
    -- we're not doing a proposal, these are directives to the contractor)

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Does make you wish for a commonsense clause that doesn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to interpret

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Our specifications define terms. In our universe, FURNISH means buy it and make it available on the job, INSTALL means take an item on the jobsite and put it in place and PROVIDE means FURNISH AND INSTALL. YMMV.

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Don't forget the word TYPICAL.

    As example: My Engineers insist on using TYPICAL, or TYP for each-and-every-single instance of a callout on a given sheet, thereby defeating the entire purpose of calling it out as being TYPICAL in the first place.
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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Quote Originally Posted by remi678731 View Post
    Does make you wish for a commonsense clause that doesn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to interpret
    Contractors and common sense seem to be mutually exclusive when profit/loss is the topic.

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Quote Originally Posted by dkoch View Post
    Our specifications define terms. In our universe, FURNISH means buy it and make it available on the job, INSTALL means take an item on the jobsite and put it in place and PROVIDE means FURNISH AND INSTALL. YMMV.
    I like that idea, buat AFAIK, it's not in our spoecifications. Spec question : are all y'all using the 16 division CSI numbering, or the latest 2004/2016 50 division scheme? something else? At one pont in a previous lif, we had organized all our typical details to line up with the 16 division CSI number, which worked reasonaby well for them. ACOE has their block symbols organized in library drwings based on the 2004 masterformat division.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And if I label the Manholes 'NEW" and only the maholes, one could argue the the 8" pcv connecting the manhles is not "NEW", much less the watermain and fittings. IMO it would seem that skipping adjectives and adverbs eliminates the potential for arguments in court.... (and just for grins, the call out that says "YACHT QUALITY FINISH" on a fiberglas hotbox. WTF does that mean?)

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Quote Originally Posted by cadtag View Post
    Contractors and common sense seem to be mutually exclusive when profit/loss is the topic.
    That's the truth, just did a small project was supposed real quick and short money problems, they cut the topo short, then they wanted to redesign about 7 revisions because the quantities where to long or too short on a inadequate topo. The contractor was advised of this and was advised he was going to be charged extra for all the changes he kept adding. As typical he said no problem this is what we need. Now he is complaining about the bill. Normal contractor.

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    Default Re: Verbiage and nomenclature

    Quote Originally Posted by cadtag View Post
    I like that idea, buat AFAIK, it's not in our spoecifications. Spec question : are all y'all using the 16 division CSI numbering, or the latest 2004/2016 50 division scheme? something else? At one pont in a previous lif, we had organized all our typical details to line up with the 16 division CSI number, which worked reasonaby well for them. ACOE has their block symbols organized in library drwings based on the 2004 masterformat division.)
    We use the newer scheme, for both Specifications and to organize our standard details.

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