Freeze Layers in Styles, Labels, Feature Lines, etc

[Iceberg]

The issue is that I have a bunch of Civil 3d label styles, as and example, that get placed on an object layer whether its 0 or another layer and when you go to freeze a label (maybe you dont want to see the fence labels) it turns off all of the labels. The CAD guys in the Civil department have been trained to use the freeze command and select items to turn off, however they do not know what they are trying to turn off, that specific layer (V-SITE-FENC-LABL). When all the text disappears they get confused and dont know what to do or what is going on.

Since (two long discussions that went no where with the CAD manager) learning the layers is out of the question (for me coming up the ranks that was part of my job to learn them) I am trying to find a solution on my end that will make the process idiot proof, so that the other departments can go back to just clicking away at a drawing. ( It also seemed like, creating layer filters, layer states, lisp routines was also out of the question since this would create work for the CAD manager).

[Tom Beauford]

If you are using Description Key Sets and a Survey Figure Prefix Database the way we are they set the layers for everything brought in from field data. The method I described in my previous post for turning off labels is used by everyone in out office. You do have to add a Point Label Style that doesn't display anything if you don't already have one.

Two of my layer states are Plan, & Reduce with Point #'s. Plan has surface layers thawed, but all surface point layers frozen. Reduce with Point #'s is the default in the template file and is helpful while checking for errors in field codes, While Plan is the finished product.

Using NCS https://www.nationalcadstandard.org/...s5_clg_lnf.pdf layering style makes creating layer filters easier.

Of course if none of this is within your control all I can offer is my sympathy.

[CCarleton]

So what's the issue with setting the layer to 0 inside the label style, and create layers for each type of label you need that are assigned on the object layer side?

If that's what you were saying you were going for initially then I misunderstood. Tom and I are just saying don't put layers inside of stuff like label styles.

[Iceberg]

So what's the issue with setting the layer to 0 inside the label style, and create layers for each type of label you need that are assigned on the object layer side?

If that's what you were saying you were going for initially then I misunderstood. Tom and I are just saying don't put layers inside of stuff like label styles.

I totally missed your post from before.... Yes setting up the styles like you stated do work, just more work.

I was trying to control that the labels are getting put on the correct layers by controlling the layer within the style, this way I dont have to keep changing layers constantly and eliminate that extra step.

[Iceberg]

Using NCS https://www.nationalcadstandard.org/...s5_clg_lnf.pdf layering style makes creating layer filters easier.

Of course if none of this is within your control all I can offer is my sympathy.

I was told we dont use the national CAD standards and that the layer system is based on the default layering convention installed within AutoCAD. I was pretty much told I dont know what I was talking about with that statement.

The layering convention is similar. (V-BLDG, V-BLDG-DECK, V-BLDG-TEXT).
But this is a different struggle and yes I do agree that makes creating filters easier.

[CCarleton]

I totally missed your post from before.... Yes setting up the styles like you stated do work, just more work.

I was trying to control that the labels are getting put on the correct layers by controlling the layer within the style, this way I dont have to keep changing layers constantly and eliminate that extra step.

Yeah, I'm getting my bearings back here a bit too. I've been a bit confused about what all objects you're talking about editing. So, at least right now, we're specifically talking about point label styles correct? When I hear labels I think of everything from parcels to annotation to surfaces etc etc. There's a ton of C3D objects that you can embed a layer inside of it and a lot of it can lead to troubles. In regards to point label styles I'd say it's safe to embed a layer inside of it. In regards to a point label style I would differ from Tom on this because Point label styles are kind of embedded inside of the point style. Unfortunately you cannot just click and freeze a point label style even with an embedded layer inside of the style, but you can freeze them through the layer manager which is what we do, but we're not as specific as it sounds you want ot get.

For us: If a point has a specific point style attached to it (valves, manholes, etc) it is assigned a point label style called "Symbol". If it's a non-specific point (ground shot, linework shot, etc) it's not. If we don't want to see a non-specific point we freeze that layer which causes the points and label to go away. If we don't want to see labels for the specific points we can freeze the V-PNTS-LABELS-SYMBOL layer and I'm left with points still showing.

If you really wanted to you could create a point label style for every type of point you'd ever use. In my opinion I see no drawback to this method other than a lot of extra layers and point label styles. I'd advise to make property filters if you go down this route though. I mean, I can't tell how sarcastic or serious you were being about how you don't want to create work for the CAD manager but any given filter should take a good 10 seconds to set up.

While technically you can change the layer of the Point Style label I'd never do it. If you don't want to see labels for a Point Style select one of the points, right-click and select "Select Similar" at the bottom, then in the Properties Palette change the Point Label Style to one that doesn't display anything.

Putting them on their own layers would add a lot of layers and make controlling them more complicated.

See, we used to use the point styles, point label styles and point groups to manage the display of this information. We moved away from it because if you had a product over to a client or a co-worker and they don't have C3D (or don't know how to use it) they are up a creek without a paddle. Everyone who CADs should understand how to interact with the layer manager.

[BlackBox]

This thread makes me want this even more now (loosely related):

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autoc.../idi-p/6978834


Cheers

[Iceberg]

This thread makes me want this even more now (loosely related):

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autoc.../idi-p/6978834


Cheers

Thats exactly what I want......

[Iceberg]

Yeah, I'm getting my bearings back here a bit too. I've been a bit confused about what all objects you're talking about editing. So, at least right now, we're specifically talking about point label styles correct? When I hear labels I think of everything from parcels to annotation to surfaces etc etc. There's a ton of C3D objects that you can embed a layer inside of it and a lot of it can lead to troubles. In regards to point label styles I'd say it's safe to embed a layer inside of it. In regards to a point label style I would differ from Tom on this because Point label styles are kind of embedded inside of the point style. Unfortunately you cannot just click and freeze a point label style even with an embedded layer inside of the style, but you can freeze them through the layer manager which is what we do, but we're not as specific as it sounds you want ot get.

For us: If a point has a specific point style attached to it (valves, manholes, etc) it is assigned a point label style called "Symbol". If it's a non-specific point (ground shot, linework shot, etc) it's not. If we don't want to see a non-specific point we freeze that layer which causes the points and label to go away. If we don't want to see labels for the specific points we can freeze the V-PNTS-LABELS-SYMBOL layer and I'm left with points still showing.

I am talking about all labels, point labels for sure.... But the big issue is when I use General Note Labels to label Concrete Pads, Sidewalk, etc. They all are on a specific layer but since I put them on an Object Layer I call OL-Text, they go to freeze the text and it freezes that object layer. The concept of setting the layer up on layer 0 and placing it on the correct layer frees up the layer to freeze like it normally would do. Its like you are treating label styles in Civil3D as a block almost so that it takes on the properties of they layer it is inserted on. Its like what Blackbox mentioned in his post, set the CLAYER then annotate, its knowing your layers which has been my argument this whole time. If you know the layers you can freeze them easily, its just that the effort to know/learn isnt there, so its trying to find a solution on my end that still keeps us productive but gets things back to the basic way they understand how to turn layers on and off.

I mean, I can't tell how sarcastic or serious you were being about how you don't want to create work for the CAD manager but any given filter should take a good 10 seconds to set up.

LOL not sarcastic, frustration because the CAD manager doesn't want to do the work.

See, we used to use the point styles, point label styles and point groups to manage the display of this information. We moved away from it because if you had a product over to a client or a co-worker and they don't have C3D (or don't know how to use it) they are up a creek without a paddle. Everyone who CADs should understand how to interact with the layer manager.

Bingo this is the issue, and I mentioned that we need training or understanding on this and the answer I got was not to my liking.... they wont put in the effort to learn or understand so why teach them (that's the jist of it all).

[BlackBox]

Thats exactly what I want......

I'll start developing it as soon as I can... May be a bit.