Freeze Layers in Styles, Labels, Feature Lines, etc

[CCarleton]

I'll start developing it as soon as I can... May be a bit.

Lol, you probably don't remember this, but when I first started going to AUGI (and when I was new at my job) I asked in the .net forum about getting it to create labels. My eventual workflow became doing what I stated earlier in this thread so I don't mess up labeling layers.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.ph...e-with-net-API

[BlackBox]

Lol, you probably don't remember this, but when I first started going to AUGI (and when I was new at my job) I asked in the .net forum about getting it to create labels. My eventual workflow became doing what I stated earlier in this thread so I don't mess up labeling layers.

http://forums.augi.com/showthread.ph...e-with-net-API

Yeah... I admit that my backlog of unpaid work is definitely longer than my backlog of paid work. Haha

I've personally (and recently) wanted for Labels to adhere to CLAYER functionality, and it would greatly streamline my own work, so it's getting bumped up on the list.


Cheers

[lmessal738905]

The issue is that I have a bunch of Civil 3d label styles, as and example, that get placed on an object layer whether its 0 or another layer and when you go to freeze a label (maybe you dont want to see the fence labels) it turns off all of the labels. The CAD guys in the Civil department have been trained to use the freeze command and select items to turn off, however they do not know what they are trying to turn off, that specific layer (V-SITE-FENC-LABL). When all the text disappears they get confused and dont know what to do or what is going on.

Since (two long discussions that went no where with the CAD manager) learning the layers is out of the question (for me coming up the ranks that was part of my job to learn them) I am trying to find a solution on my end that will make the process idiot proof, so that the other departments can go back to just clicking away at a drawing. ( It also seemed like, creating layer filters, layer states, lisp routines was also out of the question since this would create work for the CAD manager).

We've struggled with this at our firm too. For years people have been managing their layer states by freezing through the viewport (i.e. clicking). Recently we had to begin using description keysets to more easily manage tree points, which also coincided with more developed Civil templates. The description keyset places the cogo on a specific layer according to the descriptor and assigns a label style to that point. Inside that label style the data is placed on a specific tree text layer (Ex-Trees-Protected (8in-15in)-Text). However, when you go to freeze the layer it freezes the whole tree because you're actually selecting the main cogo point layer (Ex-Trees-Protected (8in-15in).

I think with the onset of C3D and the flexibility it gives with styles we're left changing the way we manage layers. I've had to educate engineers and landscape architects to effectively manage layers, particulary layers managing C3D objects, we need to use the layer manager, its search bar and layer filters. Which, yes, requires them to understand the templates and what layer each object is on. This, however, may be difficult for you to accomplish if you're not the CAD manager. However, you may be able to talk them into doing a few lunch & learns until everyone is on the same page.

Bottom line is you need to continue to communicate with your co-workers to so they understand what you're up against so you can come to a conclusion together.

Good luck.

[remi678731]

You the simplest fix to this whole thing would be for the people At Autodesk to fix the whole mess they created with the fiasco called styles. One of the first things I was taught in drafting Pre-civil3d was to avoid blocks with nested layers except for few exceptions that could be justified in the company standards. But not going to hold my breath one this one.

[MMccall]

We've taken the approach of pre-engineering the entire project file, xref and layering structure. Drawings are started from the appropriate template file for the type of plan needed. The template will open with all the anticipated layers and xrefs needed. Layouts with titleblocks and viewports are already there. The viewports are already set to show the correct layers for that style plan, including layer overrides to control the display of shaded items. The intent is to get the user as far along in plan production process as possible from the beginning.

[Openwheeler]

[QUOTE=Of course if none of this is within your control all I can offer is my sympathy.[/QUOTE]

Classic Line!

[BlackBox]

I'll start developing it as soon as I can... May be a bit.

Okay - thought I'd take a stab at this today, and already have working code. Haha


That said, I need more information from folks as to how they might want it to work.

For example, are you good with this only applying CLAYER to *Label*-related Object Layers?



Once this level of detail is locked down, I can start testing with Pipe Networks, and put an Autoloader .bundle together, etc.


Cheers

[BlackBox]

As of now, I have this working for the following Object Layers (the SettingsObjectLayerType enum in .NET API):

AlignmentLabeling
AlignmentTable
AppurtenanceLabeling
CatchmentLabeling
FittingLabeling
GeneralNoteLabel
GeneralSegmentLabel
GradingLabeling
GridSurfaceLabeling
IntersectionLabeling
MatchLine
MatchLineLabeling
MaterialTable
ParcelLabeling
ParcelSegmentLabeling
ParcelTable
PipeAndStructureTable
PipeLabeling
PointTable
PressurePartTable
PressurePipeLabeling
ProfileLabeling
ProfileViewLabeling
SampleLineLabeling
SectionLabeling
SectionViewLabeling
SectionViewQuantityTakeoffTable
StructureLabeling
SurfaceLegendTable
SurveyFigureLabeling
SurveyFigureSegmentLable
TinSurfaceLabeling
ViewFrameLabeling

Important to note that this is applying CLAYER to the resultant Objects, and does not in any way change the Style's use of Layers for Style Components; those will still show up normal per your Style's settings, this just places the Label Object on CLAYER for annotation layer management & plan production purposes.


Cheers

[CCarleton]

Okay - thought I'd take a stab at this today, and already have working code. Haha


That said, I need more information from folks as to how they might want it to work.

For example, are you good with this only applying CLAYER to *Label*-related Object Layers?



Once this level of detail is locked down, I can start testing with Pipe Networks, and put an Autoloader .bundle together, etc.


Cheers

I would say the general rule is that if it ignores the clayer someone is going to appreciate it. For me I largely deal with labeling, but I'm sure there are others specifically on the engineering side of CADing.

Edit: This would/could include things like pipe networks, alignments, parcels. I don't ever create these things (Rarely create parcels, usually the most I have to do is edit them for a subdivison from our Land Develpment team) so my knowledge on them is rather limited in that regard.

[BlackBox]

Did some more experimenting this evening, and successfully tested two methods of making Civil 3D Labels adhere to CLAYER... Here's a short 30 second video demonstration.


The first method (not shown in the video clip) - is to update the Object Layers themselves (actually changing them to CLAYER) when CLAYER changes. This method is a bit more code, but keeps Object Layers currently set to 0 (zero) layer consistent with CLAYER. Issue being when to reset the Object Layer.

As example: General Note Label Object Layer is set to 0 (zero) layer. That Object Layer is changed to FOO layer when user changes CLAYER, and labels are added (on FOO layer). Then the layer is changed back to 0 (zero) layer, the Object Layer now does not == 0 (zero) layer, and does not match CLAYER; does the Object Layer need to be restored to 0 (zero) layer when the 'add label' Command ends?


The second method (shown in the video clip) - is to simply Overrule the DBObject's Close() Method enforcing CLAYER automagically, without changing the Object Layers at all. This method is pretty light weight (less code), but I feel that it will lead to a bit of confusion on the part of users, as the resultant Label will reside on a layer that does NOT match that which is specified in Object Layers tab of C3D Drawing's Settings.

Even if the first method is to be used, methinks all Object Layers originally set to 0 (zero) layer should be changed back to 0 (zero) layer when done adding label(s), but this too may cause some confusion.

For either method, some sort of notification needs to be provided, so user is aware that any Labels added who's Object Layer is set for 0 (zero) layer is adhering to CLAYER... When to notify (each Command, each Label, etc.) and how to go about notifying (command prompt, cursor badge, or balloon notification... don't bother asking for an alert popup as I won't do that to people I don't even like, Haha) are things that need to be provided without being in the way.


Would really appreciate feedback on this.

Cheers