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Thread: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

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    Default ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    I am trying to render an interior scene which has an acoustical suspended ceiling with 2'x4' lay in light fixtures.

    3 problems I am having:

    1) The orientation of ceiling grid displays 90 degrees opposite than what it is in the ceiling plan.

    2) The orientation of the 2'x4' recessed light fixtures remain in the correct position, although not aligning with any grid pattern.

    2) The color of the ACT ceiling is dark grey, even though I selected a lighter color in Accurender. I have also experienced this same effect (dark colored ceiling) with other project interior renderings.

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    Revit Technical Specialist - Autodesk Scott Davis's Avatar
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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by rookwood
    I am trying to render an interior scene which has an acoustical suspended ceiling with 2'x4' lay in light fixtures.

    3 problems I am having:

    1) The orientation of ceiling grid displays 90 degrees opposite than what it is in the ceiling plan.

    2) The orientation of the 2'x4' recessed light fixtures remain in the correct position, although not aligning with any grid pattern.

    2) The color of the ACT ceiling is dark grey, even though I selected a lighter color in Accurender. I have also experienced this same effect (dark colored ceiling) with other project interior renderings.
    Accurender Materials are not mapped to any particular 'thing' in a Revit ceiling. You will need to adjust the materials in the material editor in order to get them rotated and lined up correctly. Colors are tough for interiors. Even when I've used the whitest white, it looks gray in renderings. Try to add luminescence to the materail in your ceiling, so the ceiling itself has a glow. I was told once to look across our own office when I was complaining about this same thing....well our office walls are "white" but not one of them appeared white, but in reality various shades of gray.
    Scott D Davis
    AEC Technical Specialist
    Autodesk, Inc.

    http://about.me/scottddavis

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    One thing I neglected to mention is that both the ceiling grid and light fixtures display properly in the 'Display Mode' of the Rendering Tab.

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by rookwood
    I am trying to render an interior scene which has an acoustical suspended ceiling with 2'x4' lay in light fixtures.

    3 problems I am having:

    1) The orientation of ceiling grid displays 90 degrees opposite than what it is in the ceiling plan.
    In the accurender materials, create a copy of the ceiling material you are using. ( I am assuming a bitmap ) Edit the new copy, under mapping, rotate the material 90 degrees.
    2) The orientation of the 2'x4' recessed light fixtures remain in the correct position, although not aligning with any grid pattern.
    One fatal flaw of accurender as implemented with the render engine in Revit. You have no real control of the origin of mapping. (no UVW control). The best solution I have seen to this issue posted is to create the ceiling tile as a single plane, and overlay an actual grid on the plane, then render a "real" ceiling.
    2) The color of the ACT ceiling is dark grey, even though I selected a lighter color in Accurender. I have also experienced this same effect (dark colored ceiling) with other project interior renderings.
    Are you running a radiosity solution? The light is originating "behind" the ceiling, thus the entire ceiling is in shadow. You'll need to either provide some out of camera uplighting, or run a radiosity solution to get some "bounce" light on the ceiling, and as Scott says, the ceiling still could be grey. If you have windows in the space, be sure they are included as light sources (if a daylight scene).

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Thanks guys for the imput as it seems my fears are somewhat confirmed. I never thought that the ACT, being a bmp, just 'fills in' where it will fill in. It does seem odd, given the fact that ACT ceilings are common, that there isn't an actual in place ceiling arrangement.

    I'm just wondering, though, if it is possible to create just the grid, without panels, then insert an in place gypsum panel system in each grid section?

    A last resort is to kill the ACT system and use gypsum/furring. Not a good solution.

    I will have to place several floor mounted fixtures in the model to provide uplighting on the ceiling. I realize that the ceiling will render darker, given the fixtures are on, or below, the ceiling plane. But sometimes 'reality' doesn't give the best results.

    Very dissapointing result in the rendering from an area I never thought you would need to be concerned with.

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Look at this rendering of an entry. The ceiling furring is white, as is the tile. This is a bitmap, but note there are no grid based lighting fixtures in the ceiling. The entry is also surrounded by glass as light sources, rendered in daylight. So you can adjust the brightness of the final render before you save, or as Scott suggested, give the ceiling a slight self-illumination. Rendering
    Last edited by SkiSouth; 2005-07-15 at 08:27 PM.

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    I could stop if I wanted to Tom Dorner's Avatar
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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    The solution I use to increase the lighting level in renderings is to insert "studio lights" which are in the imperial library. Studio lights are just orbs of light you can place in your project at mid height between the floor and ceiling. This will help brighten up the ceiling and the scene.

    As for ACT ceiling, my wish is for the following:

    Ceilings:
    In particular lay-in commercial ceilings that would be modeled using components that match the real world construction. The tees would be a profile, the ceiling panels could be panels with a proper edge profile, lights and other ceiling components such as HVAC diffusers wouldn’t “cut” the ceiling like they do now, but would simply replace a ceiling panel like curtain wall doors do a curtain panel. This type of modeling would also allow for grids with no tile to be created which happens in retail and restaurants. The curtain wall tool can almost be used for this purpose now, but a dedicated “ruled ceiling system” tool would make the process easier and get the ceiling into the proper Revit category for visibility and scheduling. Rendering would also be easier.


    Tom

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by tomdinmn
    . This type of modeling would also allow for grids with no tile to be created which happens in retail and restaurants. The curtain wall tool can almost be used for this purpose now, but a dedicated “ruled ceiling system” tool would make the process easier and get the ceiling into the proper Revit category for visibility and scheduling. Rendering would also be easier.[/size][/font][/font]
    you could actually do that now with simply making a flat sloped glazing roof as a ceiling.

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Skisouth
    you could actually do that now with simply making a flat sloped glazing roof as a ceiling.
    But would this address Tom's issue for scheduling?

    It seems that, for the present, you would need to create the ceiling system from standard Revit family components for CD Plan and Scheduling. Then, perhaps 'offsite' set up the room you wanted to render, create the 'tricked' ceiling with the flat sloped glazing system as Skisouth suggests or perhaps a 'beam' system. Create and place panels of your liking. Render, save, then remove from file.

    Now I'm stopped. How do you get a recessed troffer to place itself since there is no 'ceiling system' for it to recognize? Perhaps create the flat sloped glazing system (with tees and ultra thin panels) immediately under the real ceiling and cut openings in the panels where your fixtures are located? That way, you will have your 'real' ceiling for CD's and a 'false' ceiling for rendering.

    I don't know if it's possible, but if there is an offset dimension allowed for the troffers, you could create thicker ceiling panels and make any edge profile you wanted, as Tom mentioned.

    I don't know if any of this is possible and if it were, how can you create this and turn off it's visibility without affecting other similar items? It just seems to be a glaring issue with Revit, given the common use of lay in ceilings.

    BTW: Nice renderings Skisouth...really nice!

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    Default Re: ACT Ceiling & Light Fixture Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by rookwood
    Now I'm stopped. How do you get a recessed troffer to place itself since there is no 'ceiling system' for it to recognize?
    I experimented with this earlier and almost posted the same suggestion about using a sloped glazing roof. You can nest a light fixture family in a curtain panel and it will render, I tried it, it works. The fixture has to be able to flex with the panel since curtain panel don't have parameters for width and length, so instance parameters for the sizes are required. You have to make the family shared for it to create light when rendered, and workplane based so the fixture can be placed in the plane a panel requires.

    To pull it off you'd have to create these objects for each type of ceiling fixture you want to render. As for the ceiling and tees, it works quite well. You do need to make a ceiling material that doesn't include the "tee" grid. I photoshopped out the grid in my experiment. It is just awkward to deal with the fixtures that need to be part of the ceiling.

    You can also switch out panels for the empty panel and place non-hosted families as long as you also build in "panel" around the fixture so it looks as if it were really part of or cut into the ceiling.

    {edit} I attached a sample image. The fixture is a linear fixture...no reason other than that's what I arbitrarily picked, should've been a regular. The ceiling material is a bit too "big" though it is a modified 2x4 accurender image.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Steve_Stafford; 2005-07-16 at 05:41 AM.

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