Backup Files

[Sweetshelby]

I have read through all the post I could find on Backup files and Journals and think I have a grasp on them but it would be nice to get updated discussion of them for 9.0 since most of the post were for 8.1.

Can someone explain how Backup files and Journal files work in both a Workset project and a non workset project. I would like to fully understand the whole process and there is not much in the help files.

Thanks

[luigi]

I will give you my few seconds answer in hope that it will trigger the discussion you deserve to get...

Backups act just like in Autocad...it creates a backup file once you save your drawing. If you have a maximum of 5 backup files (set from the "Options" menu) then the moment you save the 6th time, you can't go back to the original, because it doesn't exist. That is why the normal setting is 20 (at least for central and local files)

To use the backups properly for Central/Local files require some time, since it is complicated in trying to figure out which file has the most updated info and copying pasting (or just making the most current local file your central file) you have multiple options in retrieving correct information when a file becomes corrupt (almost never) or to fix a user error from a local save to central...

Journal topic is my favorite, and also needs proper time spent on it...but in short, the journal keeps record of ALL of your moves since you actually start Revit until you close or crash (which almost never happens)
Now, what this means is that if you open multiple projects (i.e. you work on one, then you save and close and open the second, and you save and close...the Journal records ALL of those steps) Why is this important?
A Journal file (although UNSUPPORTED by the Revit team) is a method to POSSIBLY retrieve your work if for some reason Revit crashes (seldom) or there is a power outage, or your kid accidently hits the power button and you haven't saved your work.

Now here is the twist. If the journal opens a file that was last saved on Monday at 4:00am (quite common in this office LOL) and you begin working on it Tuesday at 9:00am, and you don't save (or open and modify a family and then save the family-I hope to explain this later) and crash at 5:00pm.....all you need to do is drag the correct journal file (while revit is closed) and drop it on top of the revit icon. This will initiate the journal and complete the journal without errors.

Now, what do you think might happen if you have saved so many times that the original file from Monday at 4:00am is no longer in your folder? chances are the journal will be interrupted fairly early on in its recovery....because the moves that would have worked for the 4:00am file, will not work (may not work) with the oldest backup file you have.

on a better note, if you have saved a few times (thus creating additional backup files) but still have the 4:00am backup file, you can make a copy of your current Revit file, and rename your 4:00am backup file to be your current revit file (remove the numbers and replace bak with rvt) and run the journal as mentioned above....it will work as smooth as the above scenario...

Now, if you have opened families (or other project files) and have not only modified them, but saved them, this could cause some error during the journal retrieval process....something may not be exactly the same as before...if a family has an object that you delete and save it...during the journal it will try to delete that object that is currently no longer availble...so the journal will interrupt.................there are ways though, to reconstruct the initial situation the journal began (and I was able to retrieve lots of information back this way, when I mistakenly forgot to save a file ( it was like 5 or 6 am and I was working on 4 computers and just became delerious) and after reconstructing the contents of my folders (using the journal to figure out what time was the current files) I was able to retrieve all the work I had lost....

Now that I have totally lost you or anybody else reading this post....I silently leave the forum....

[irwin]

Backups act just like in Autocad...it creates a backup file once you save your drawing. If you have a maximum of 5 backup files (set from the "Options" menu) then the moment you save the 6th time, you can't go back to the original, because it doesn't exist. That is why the normal setting is 20 (at least for central and local files)

Actually, Revit does something a little fancier than this, at least for non-workset files and local files (but not central). When you open a file and then save multiple times, Revit never removes the version of the file that you originally opened, even if you save more times than the maximum number of backups you have set. This guarantees that there is always some version of the file that will open, even if some corruption was somehow introduced into the file and then saved many times. It also means that the version of the file that you retrieved when you started the journal is still there (unless you closed the file and then opened it again in the same session).

[luigi]

Actually, Revit does something a little fancier than this, at least for non-workset files and local files (but not central). When you open a file and then save multiple times, Revit never removes the version of the file that you originally opened, even if you save more times than the maximum number of backups you have set. This guarantees that there is always some version of the file that will open, even if some corruption was somehow introduced into the file and then saved many times. It also means that the version of the file that you retrieved when you started the journal is still there (unless you closed the file and then opened it again in the same session).

Thank you Irwin!!!! I had a strange thought in the back of my head that even after a whole day's of work and multiple saves, I was able to run a journal with the proper revit file.....

Thanks!!!

[Sweetshelby]

Thank you very much for the explanation. We have spent the past few days testing the journal file theory and find that it can get very complicated. Especially since all our files are in worksets.

For example if you open a local file and work and save through out the day and then have a crash say at 3:00pm if you try to run the journal file it will open the last saved file (not the am file) and then run the steps from the beginning, but of course the last save file was from say 2:00pm and so it will run through steps you already have done and create more issues.
We found if you can find the last save in the journal file and delete the steps before it (except for the opening of the file) then it will run the steps after the last save. This is getting a little on the dangerous side so we think this will probably be a last resort way to retrieve a file.

So far we have not had to many crashes once or twice on a a couple of huge projects so we hope this will not be an issue. I just wanted to understand the process, just in case.

Thank you

[pdavis]

I have had to use the journal file several times because some users seem to have a fear of saving locally and it is not uncommon to lose several hours of work. I have had the journal file fail on me several times. It always seems to fail during a in-place family member edit. (we try to discourage in-place families, but you can't police everything)

[jcary]

Another variable in the equasion was discussed in our office this morning. I have not had a chance to give it a go, but it sounds promising. Here's the nutshell version:

If a file (that has a central file and is broken into worksets) has been worked on all day by multiple users, including families, STC's, opening other files, etc, and there is a crash by an individual user at the end of the day, there is a way to reconstruct only what was done since the last STC.

For obvious reasons, be sure to save an unmolested copy of the latest viable file to ensure ALL is not lost. Then again, we all knew that one, right?

Locate the latest local journal file, open it, strip out everything from AFTER the initial loading of the file up to and including the last STC. Also remove file path references from the initial load. Take this revised txt file and save-as to the same folder as the file that crashed. Like other windows programs, when the new txt file is dropped on the Revit icon, since the file path information has been removed, the file that will be opened will be the file in the shared folder.

Again, I have not tried this yet, but I wanted to see if any of you had tried this approach before. I assume the same would hold true if a backup file were to be used.