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Thread: training books?

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    AUGI Addict Maverick91's Avatar
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    Default training books?

    Howdy y'all.

    What books would you recommend to learn about Civil3d?

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    AUGI Addict sinc's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    Books? What books?

    Civil-3D is in such a huge state of flux right now that any book would be out-of-date by the time it was published...

    There's a lot of resources on the web, though.

    And of course, nothing beats good training. If you're looking for good training, try to avoid people who teach from Autodesk's "Magic disk" - in other words, if they want to bring along a disk with pre-packaged data and use that for the class, look for someone else.

    If you learn from the "magic disk", you typically find yourself lost when you try to work on a real project, starting from the typical mess you might receive from another company. A good trainer can show you how things work "in real life", which is much more valuable.

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    AUGI Addict Maverick91's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    I've tried using the tutorials that came with the program. They all look real cool, but they all lack any real substance. What I really need to learn is how to create and manage profiles. My next step is going to classes at a local dealer.

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    AUGI Addict sinc's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick91
    I've tried using the tutorials that came with the program. They all look real cool, but they all lack any real substance.
    Exactly. They're worthless. They start with pre-packaged drawings, and you get no explanation of how they got the drawing to that point. All the Tutorials do is show you how to accomplish a few specific tasks, assuming someone else gets your drawings to the same point they're at for the Tutorials. They should rightly be called "Audience-participation Demonstrations" rather than "Tutorials".

    You can hit the same problem with a lot of so-called training. They bring a disk of "class materials", which is basically a bunch of pre-prepared DWGs, just like the Tutorials. So, with this kind of training, it's very easy to end up in the same boat. Once the trainer leaves, and you are trying to work on a real job instead of the carefully-prepared "class materials", you can find yourself completely lost.

    If a trainer doesn't know C3D well enough to come to your company and teach you on some of your real-world data, then that trainer is not someone you want teaching you.

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    100 Club MMccall.83699's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    The problem I had with bringing someone into the office for training was that I initially didn't know enough about the software to even know exactly what I needed.

    Yes, the tutorials do suck. Do them anyway. Muck around in their info, mess them up, try stuff, blow them up. It doesn't matter, not your data. Take from it what you can. The next step might be one of the training courses with the 'magic disk' of canned class materials. Again, take from it what you can. On your own, try to do some of the normal stuff you need to accomplish to prepare a project (parcels, profiles, corridors, grading, pipes, labelling) Try using some real data from an older/completed projects. (copies!, not the real stuff) Determine what you can figure out on your own and where you still need help. My guess it that you'll figure out about 70% on your own. Now you can make the best use of some in house instruction and get another 25% or more. The last bit will come with time.

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    I could stop if I wanted to ekubaskie's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    Are you on subscription? The C3D webcasts available there are better than the tutorials. Subscription also gets you access to AU Online, where you can get the materials & recordings from AU courses.

    I came away from AU with a free copy of Autodesk's AOTC training manual on Intersections and Cul-de-sacs, but I haven't gone through it yet to know if it's really any good. Sinc, did I get what I paid for?

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    100 Club randyc's Avatar
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    Wink Re: training books?

    Cadapult Software Solutions, Inc. has two books w/ resource CD: a level 1 book that introduces you to Civil 3D by walking you through a basic project from start to finish; and a level 2 book that covers a more advanced project. I have not used them yet, but my department plans on purchasing both. I did use their Digging into LDT 2004 and got quite a bit out of it. Give 'em a browse if you are interested. http://www.cadapult-software.com/

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    I could stop if I wanted to Clyne Curtis's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    Autodesk's courseware isn't too bad...they even have an essentials manual geared for those coming from LDT to C3D with a running comparison of features and processes. There are a few gaps in the tutorials, but nothing too bad...IMHO!


    Clyne

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    AUGI Addict sinc's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    Quote Originally Posted by MMccall.83699
    The problem I had with bringing someone into the office for training was that I initially didn't know enough about the software to even know exactly what I needed.
    Do you know what your company does? If you can explain what your company does, then you should be able to tell a good trainer, and they will get you started. The trainer should understand your terminology. You should be able to say, "We do a lot of subdivision design. We've been using Land Desktop so far, and have basically no experience with Civil-3D." That one sentence alone is enough to give a good trainer a schedule for a week's worth of coursework that will teach you how to use parcels, corridors, grading objects, and pipe networks. Plenty to start.

    Then, try to come up with a good representative project that is not too big, but contains aspects of the stuff you do a lot. Use that as your "class material".

    Yes, the tutorials do suck. Do them anyway. Muck around in their info, mess them up, try stuff, blow them up. It doesn't matter, not your data. Take from it what you can. The next step might be one of the training courses with the 'magic disk' of canned class materials. Again, take from it what you can.
    I approach this from the point-of-view that time is money.

    I spent a couple of months working with Civil-3D on my own, basically on my own time (since I couldn't stop working to concentrate on C3D). At the end of a couple of months, I had spent quite a bit of time with the program, and had gone through all the tutorials, but still felt lost. The hardest part was figuring out if the latest crash was caused by something I did, or by the faulty software. I'm sure if I continued hacking my way through, and watching webcasts, and reading websites, I would have eventually figured it out, but it would have been a number of additional months until I figured out enough that I felt comfortable trying one of my companies jobs in it. And then I would have been in the position of being the only one in my company who knew ANYTHING about C3D. We probably would have spent at least a year trying to transition before we started actually getting anything out of C3D.

    So we hired someone to come in and give our company three-days-worth of C3D training. At the end of it, EVERYONE in my company could use C3D to import field data, build a surface, create parcels on the surface, design a corridor with transitions and multiple daylight conditions, calculate dirt quantities, label parcel areas, use basic MAP queries, create feature lines, use the elevation editor, create survey points, and more. Basically, our ENTIRE OFFICE has a decent grasp on how to do all our basic tasks in C3D, after only three days.

    True, much of the next month was spent primarily discovering quirks in the software, and setting up Styles. We are only now hitting the point where we can send a field guy out to do a Topo survey, and then whip out a finished design survey. And we have yet to tackle a plat. But our trainer had done the equivalent of teaching us basic grammar and vocabulary, so we've been able to just get to work, with minimal trials and tribulations. And he's always there to help, for those times when we get stuck in a particularly non-intuitive piece of C3D. Net result is our ENTIRE COMPANY now feels like this transition will not only happen, it will be a great benefit. We already have three projects in C3D, and they are going great. Everyone is utterly amazed at how easy most tasks are, compared to Land Desktop. (And then sometimes we end up cursing the software because it is still very much a Beta product, but our overall experience is very positive...)

    Our training was in early-mid November. We are already actively using C3D in several projects, and look forward to phasing Land Desktop out completely early next year. Contrast this experience with something like the Autodesk Sitelines experience, where they had some "magic disk" training, and then dumped a single engineer on a project as their "test". After six months, they too have a favorable impression of C3D, but they made hardly any progress on their pilot project, and they have only one engineer sort-of trained in C3D. (I say "sort of trained", because their engineer has been having a lot of problems with stuff EVERYONE in my office can do...)

    But hey, you can attack this however you wish... We feel that it is of great benefit to get this software working quickly, rather than spending months and months fighting through it...
    Last edited by sinc; 2006-12-18 at 12:43 AM.

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    100 Club MMccall.83699's Avatar
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    Default Re: training books?

    OK, so you did the tutorials and spent some time with the software before calling someone into the company for training. I didn't say it very well but that's all I really meant to suggest. Spend a little time with the software. There are somethings one can pick up on very easily without eating up some the instructor's time on the easy stuff. All I meant was to not go into the training cold, but also, don't waste a lot of time trying to figure it all out on your own.

    My perspective on this product is different than most. For me, C3d is my first Autodesk exposure so I needed everything. I had my training back on Jan. 05 with C3d 2005. I spent a week with the software, mostly on my own time, then drove 2 hours to the nearest training location that fit the time schedule I needed. ASAP. The company didn't have the funds right then so I paid for it myself. I needed this software and this job to work. The software was very new and flaky. The instructor himself was just certified to teach it the week before. I spent a lot of my own time figuring out how to apply what I had, and hadn't learned, for the training to what we do and how we do it.

    Our company had just been formed and opened it's doors for business. We chose C3d as our weapon of choice as we wanted some what of an industry standard with good support and compatibility. C3D was the only leg I had to stand on so I had to make it for me, as best I could, right away or our doors wouldn't be open for business very long. My perspective is also that of a solo user so my thought s don't immediately go to usage on a mass scale. I also tend to take the simplest solution to a problem but even though it may be short sighted or unfit for others usage. I get it done, it's right, it looks good and we get paid. I learn more with each project and the end result and effort it took to get there improves.

    I'll try harder to keep my opinions to myself in the future.

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