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Thread: Ceiling based light fixtures

  1. #1
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    Default Ceiling based light fixtures

    I am continuing to bang my head trying to understand some aspects of families. I am currently trying to build a complete fixtures library for our Interiors group, and my head hurts trying to understand some of this.

    I started by looking at the "Lighting Fixture ceiling based" template, and I get a Ref Level, along with the standard front, back, left and right elevations.

    Then I looked at the "Downlight - Recessed Can" family from the OOTB Imperial Library. There I have a Ground Floor level, and a Level 2, and a ceiling object between. I don't understand the need for the Ground Floor, and I really don't understand needing to relate to the floor above!. My understanding is that you would use Linework in conjunction with an Underlay to show the light fixture in the Floor Plan. Or is the example fixture actually a special case that is intended to always show up in plan? And does the Ground Floor automatically relate to the actual floor level in some way? In other words, could I create a pendant fixture where the mounting plate always happens at the ceiling, but the height of the pendant is controlled relative to the floor, and changing ceiling height causes the cord to lengthen, the mount stays at the ceiling and the pendant stays put relative to the floor? And how to I add that Floor Level? Is it just the name that makes it relate to the actual floor level?

    Inquiring minds want to know?

    Thanks,
    Gordon

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    All AUGI, all the time christo4robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ceiling based light fixtures

    Gordon, I have many of the same questions you do. That said, we have a system for light fixtures where we nest an annotation family into the fixture family, place an invisble model line between the ceiling and the floor, and then use categories to control the visibility of the fixture model geometry and the annotation symbol in the different views. I've attached one for you to have a look.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Christopher Herr
    Studio H:T
    Republic of Boulder

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    Default Re: Ceiling based light fixtures

    Quote Originally Posted by 4christo4
    Gordon, I have many of the same questions you do. That said, we have a system for light fixtures where we nest an annotation family into the fixture family, place an invisble model line between the ceiling and the floor, and then use categories to control the visibility of the fixture model geometry and the annotation symbol in the different views. I've attached one for you to have a look.
    Christopher,
    this was very much my idea as well. I had even thought of nesting multiple 3D pendant models, with visibility controlled by type, such that all the fixtures would have identically 2D presentation in RCP, but show up as the specific pendent in elevation and perspective, and schedule properly by type. I will have to try setting pendant height based on the floor and see what happens. And hopefully some reference material is to be had soon.

    Best,
    Gordon

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    Default Re: Ceiling based light fixtures

    So in addition to a good 3D fixture, I am trying to develop a library of simple 2D lighting fixtures for very large TI projects. With floor based stuff (furniture and plumbing fixtures) I have used the approach of putting a Filled Region in a Detail Component, and then nesting that in the Plumbing or Furniture family, so that the simple 2D family still masks the floor finish appropriately. However, with Ceiling based items (I have tried the Ceiling based light and a Ceiling based generic model) the nested Detail Component doesn't seem to work. It is there, it just doesn't mask anything. However, when I insert the Detail Component with the mast directly, it screens properly. Is this a bug with the Ceiling based families? And is it (hopefully) just a flaw in the template, and there is a setting to solve the problem. Or is it a bug with ceilings? Anyone have a suggestion? If I am in fact not doing anything wrong then I am going to report this as a bug, because even if there is a workaround, it seems to me that an approach that works on the floor (or walls, or roof) should also work on the ceiling.

    Hopefully I am just a dolt and there is a way to use the nested detailc omponent approach in ceilings. Consistency is a good thing in my book.

    Best,
    Gordon

  5. #5
    Active Member sven.129574's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ceiling based light fixtures

    Gordon,

    I have tried creating pendant-type light fixtures that have a height based on the floor, but I have not yet been successful. They flex just fine in the family editor (see my thread from last week), but when placed in a project, they just hang a fixed distance from a sloped ceiling. They don't pay attention to floors or levels at all. It's quite aggravating, really.

    I also can't get any of the out-of-the-box lighting fixtures to stay a fixed distance from the floor when the ceiling slopes. I can't get 4Cristo4's family to do so, either. Was it supposed to?

    I wonder if there is a bug in how the ceiling-based families are interpreted in the project, since behavior inside the family editor is different, and given the behavior in the project, the reference level for the floor level seems completely moot.

    --Scott Johnson
    CAD Manager
    Richard L. Bowen + Associates

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    All AUGI, all the time robert.manna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ceiling based light fixtures

    Quote Originally Posted by gordon.price
    There I have a Ground Floor level, and a Level 2, and a ceiling object between. I don't understand the need for the Ground Floor, and I really don't understand needing to relate to the floor above!. My understanding is that you would use Linework in conjunction with an Underlay to show the light fixture in the Floor Plan. Or is the example fixture actually a special case that is intended to always show up in plan? And does the Ground Floor automatically relate to the actual floor level in some way? In other words, could I create a pendant fixture where the mounting plate always happens at the ceiling, but the height of the pendant is controlled relative to the floor, and changing ceiling height causes the cord to lengthen, the mount stays at the ceiling and the pendant stays put relative to the floor? And how to I add that Floor Level? Is it just the name that makes it relate to the actual floor level?
    As far as I'm aware, for Revit to function, you always have to have a level, so even though you're creating a ceiling based fixture family, the level needs to be in the family editor because the level provides a graphical representation of Revit's coordinate system. So to my understanding the level isn't in the family for the purpose of using it to create the family, but just because. When placing any geometry (families or otherwise) in a Revit project you will notice that it is always related to a level, this is part of Revit's baseline functionality, and it is part of how it "tracks" objects and their spatial relationships to each other.

    If you want your fixtures to show-up in plan, or even if you want all pendants to have the same 2D representation in RCP's, then you are correct, you should make use of symbolic geometry and or nested detail components (which are 2D) to represent your fixtures. In the case of light fixtures where we do typically use the same graphical symbol (no matter the actual type) then it makes sense to create a detail component that can be embeded in mutliple families. I'm not sure why there is a level 2 in the OOTB family, is there actually a second level, or just a 2nd view? Would have to take a look myself.

    HTH,
    -R

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