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Thread: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

  1. #1
    ACA/AMEP Community Chair stelthorst's Avatar
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    Default Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Hi Everyone.

    I received a drawing from a company that I'm working with that contained a disclaimer (see attached) This disclaimer has somehow been embedded in the drawing and I only have the ability to hide it (via turning off the layer it was inserted on or using the olehide command). I don't want to remove it, I want to know how it was done so that I can do the same to my drawings. Does anyone know how this company did this? It's pretty cool.

    Thanks in advance,
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Scott Telthorst
    Quality Control Manager
    Helix Electric, Inc.
    www.helixelectric.com

    Some see the glass as half full, others as half empty. As an engineer I see the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. ~Unknown~

  2. #2
    Administrator Mike.Perry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Hi

    Check out the following threads -

    OLE Objects

    .xls image?

    Especially the references to Technical Document ID: TS64541 this document will answer what the Non Selectable Object is.

    How is it done? Have quickly experimented here and it appears the following procedure will create a Non Selectable OLE Object within a AutoCAD a drawing file -

    Create a New Word Document (AutoCAD_OLEtest.doc) -> Write the required text -> Save

    Start a New Drawing (OLEtest01.dwg) -> Paste Special (As: Microsoft Word Document) -> Save

    OLEtest01.dwg now contains a working OLE Object.

    Start a New Drawing (OLEtest02.dwg) -> Insert -> Browse to OLEtest01.dwg -> Check the Explode tick box.

    OLEtest02.dwg now contains a Non Selectable OLE Object (as per the original drawing posted "test.dwg").

    Have attached a ZIP file containing the files I created during my little experiment.

    Have a good one, Mike
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    AUGI Addict sinc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Heh. Good one. I had figured it was an OLE object, but couldn't figure out how they had gotten it non-selectable.

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    ACA/AMEP Community Chair stelthorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Hi All,

    Thanks Mike for the link to the Technical Document. I don't know how you're able to find all that information.

    Now I'm conflicted about inserting a disclaimer in my drawing that can't be removed. The designer side of me says to do it in order to protect myself, but the AutoCAD side of me has a problem inserting something into a drawing that can't be removed.
    Also, since my work involves sharing information between several trades (ie mechanical, plumbing, fire sprinkler, etc) I'm afraid everyone will start doing this and I'll have drawings with disclaimers all over the place.

    What does everyone think?
    Scott Telthorst
    Quality Control Manager
    Helix Electric, Inc.
    www.helixelectric.com

    Some see the glass as half full, others as half empty. As an engineer I see the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. ~Unknown~

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    Lightbulb Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Hello -

    For my company, I've made it standard policy to never release dwg files to anyone, unless absolutely critical to the success of the project. Send out dwf's or pdf's for those who do not need to edit the drawing (which shouldn't be anyone outside of your company).

    Disclaimers are part of the ball game now because of the ease in which outside information can be "borrowed." There should be a proprietary statement on every sheet that is plotted / sent out. Ethicly, if you send out a drawing to be edited by (5) trades, who will all enter disclaimers about the drawing being their own work yada yada, then those people are taking credit for your work to some degree. This is wrong, and also very hard to clarify in court!

    The common ground that I find is as this: Say if a fire sprinkler contractor wants my complete floor plan in dwg to edit for his layout. Because it would otherwise take their draftsman a few days to redraw the plan from scratch, time that we typically don't like to waste, I'll send them a dwg on a compromise - just the floor plan object lines, completely exploded, without dimensions, text, or blocks. Purge the file, put everything on layer "0", they have everything to scale and let them do what they must. For the notes, send them hardcopies or dwf's to read. You've given none of your company info out, and you can then deduct your drafting time (nominally) from their invoice.

    Thanks,
    Albert
    Albert Terrazas
    Wright Process Systems
    88 Commerce St
    Lodi, CA 95240
    (209) 369 - 2795
    (209) 369 - 8348 fax

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    ACA/AMEP Community Chair stelthorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Thanks for you're input Albert.

    I think we're looking it this situation from different perspectives.

    I work for a large electrical contractor and my job is to coordinate routing and elevations of my conduits, cable trays, etc with the routing of the other trade's systems (mechanical ductwork, plumbing and fire sprinkler piping etc) and with the architectural and structural drawings. It is not unusual for me to be working with a drawing with xrefs for all of these trades and architectural, structural and civil drawings for several floors included. It is not unusual for me to be working with a drawing with 20 or more xrefs and well over a 1000 layers. When I release my drawing to the other trades for their coordination effort I do not include any of the xrefs (since they should have them in their drawings already). My concern was that if I, and everyone else I work with, add this disclaimer to their drawings then I have that much more clutter on my drawing.

    From my perspective, I have received drawings in the format you describe (all entities on one layer) and end up spending a lot of time putting items back on layers that allow me to turn on and off the features I am focusing on at the time.

    Hope this gives you some in-site into what I do and where I'm coming from.
    Scott Telthorst
    Quality Control Manager
    Helix Electric, Inc.
    www.helixelectric.com

    Some see the glass as half full, others as half empty. As an engineer I see the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. ~Unknown~

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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Scott -

    I see now where you're coming from. I'm wondering if that the individual drawings need the disclaimer - assuming that your concern is to claim your property and expressly prohibit use without your consent. First, perhaps the borders themselves, for final prints, should read something like "The elements of design and other data herein are the express property of their respective trade engineer / contractor, and are not to be used in whole or in part without the written consent of the respective company."

    Then, for legal protection on the larger scale, perhaps the bid packages or PO's should contain a longer clause that would essentially find anyone using your data guilty of theft, plagiarism, etc.

    So that's no added data in the drawing files (as it should be), a universally protective disclaimer on the borders, and lastly a signed statement of legality in each contract for work.

    Does this sound closer to what you were asking?

    Albert
    Albert Terrazas
    Wright Process Systems
    88 Commerce St
    Lodi, CA 95240
    (209) 369 - 2795
    (209) 369 - 8348 fax

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    ACA/AMEP Community Chair stelthorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Thanks Albert,

    I think you're heading me in the right direction.

    I had initially liked the idea of embedding the disclaimer in the drawing but am now leaning more toward you're ideas. I guess my only concern would be when I get requests (and I do) from other contractors and our sub-contractors for data I didn't create.

    For example, we will sometimes subcontract out the installation of the fire alarm system and the subcontractor will ask me for electronic copies of the architectural backgrounds in order to facilitate his design. I don't want to be held responsible for sending him an architectural drawings that may contain errors (I'm sure all of you Architects are saying "We don't make errors on our drawings")

    Any ideas on how to handle these situations? (I would just tell them to get the drawings from the source (i.e. Architect or General Contractor) but we are usually working with short deadlines and don't have time to add more layers of bureaucracy to the process)

    Thanks again for everyones input
    Scott Telthorst
    Quality Control Manager
    Helix Electric, Inc.
    www.helixelectric.com

    Some see the glass as half full, others as half empty. As an engineer I see the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. ~Unknown~

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    Administrator Mike.Perry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Quote Originally Posted by stelthorst
    What does everyone think?
    Hi

    Personally I wouldn't go down the Non Selectable OLE Object path (unless I first carried out a lot of testing).

    Why?

    Main reason, I don't think any of us (unless we've carried out extensive testing) can say for sure if such a method is safe ie Doesn't cause drawing file corruption....

    Albert has made some good suggestions....

    Have you looked at using Digital Signatures (AutoCAD 2004 & 2005).

    or

    A Third-Party product like http://www.cadlock.com/

    Have a good one, Mike

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    Default Re: Adding a disclaimer to a drawing.

    Hi Scott -

    Seems like we're getting a solution down; hope you don't mind if I start using our ideas here myself!

    Keeping the design current across the board has got to be a major challenge as it is, and having to coordinate between multiple parties to maintain updates is work for a project manager, not a sub, I would think.

    And you might be held responsible for releasing drawings without the author's permission simply in that an error not pointed out or impacting your work may spell disaster for another contractor.

    This ideal way to handle this would be to complete each project phase thoroughly, one at a time (first floor plan 100%, then send to fire & electrical for 100% completion, then to concrete & so on). Since this is not usually practical, perhaps a system of constant update is necessary. Such as in having the architect send out daily e-transmits to everyone, so that the group (or just yourself as the distributor) are always current. Utilize these as xrefs, maybe.

    It just came to me (!): The sure-fire way to release yourself from liability would be to ensure that when you receive your electronic arch sets, only accept them with a "Released for Trade Correspondence" banner (or similar) in place, preferably with a responsible party's name and date present. This states that the author is aware that the drawings will be used for other's development, and agrees that the condition in which the data is in is sufficient for completion of other trade work. To back this up, perhaps in your job quote or other pre-work documentation include the clause "to ensure fastest progression of work possible, drawings released to (Company) for electrical work may be distributed to other contractors involved with this project if and only if the original author is unable to do so in a timely fashion" - or something close.

    I might be getting carried away, but this really does seem to make sense to me!

    Have a good day,
    Albert
    Albert Terrazas
    Wright Process Systems
    88 Commerce St
    Lodi, CA 95240
    (209) 369 - 2795
    (209) 369 - 8348 fax

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