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Thread: Revit & New generation users vs old users

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    100 Club Beancud's Avatar
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    Unhappy Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Hello,

    I thought I would start a discussion about new generation users and older users. I understand it has been discussed many times before but I would like to have some insight on how people and their companies are tackling this conflict.

    My company is a global wide consultant trying to implement Revit. The management and the board has started to take this new technology seriously. The developement of BIM using Revit is coming along nicely across several offices.

    We have a healthy number of people who are interested in Revit and are almost using it in dairy basis, these people are aged between 20-35ish.

    And than there is people who are the older generations 40-65+ year old CAD drafters. Who started off using the good old drawing board, T-squares, set squares etc. They have gone through the age of DOS to windows 3.1 and the very first AutoCAD, but now they refuse to use anything else other than AutoCAD.

    I have had no luck motivating these people to use the program, and recent project has been required to use Revit package. I am the only one using Revit in my office out of 4 drafters. It has now became somewhat a bottle neck as I am the only person drafting in Revit. The other 3 people would sit there be idle, chat and not do any work becuase they can't use Revit.

    I keep telling them that up-skilling is important and the company require drafter to be proficient with Revit. I understand from their perspective - they will will have nor merit in going through the trouble of learning a new package since they will retire in 1-5 years time.
    But having 3 senior drafter that is unproductive and hence each earn over $50 an hour - costing the company money.

    I think even the juniors who are straight out of high school is more useful since they are enthusiastic and willing to learn. They also cost the company nothing.

    Does anyone have an advice in how to tackle the age gap and generations that are un-motivated?

    Many thanks!

  2. #2
    I could stop if I wanted to Misteracad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by Beancud View Post
    ...And than there is people who are the older generations 40-65+ year old CAD drafters. Who started off using the good old drawing board, T-squares, set squares etc. They have gone through the age of DOS to windows 3.1 and the very first AutoCAD, but now they refuse to use anything else other than AutoCAD.

    I have had no luck motivating these people to use the program, and recent project has been required to use Revit package. I am the only one using Revit in my office out of 4 drafters. It has now became somewhat a bottle neck as I am the only person drafting in Revit. The other 3 people would sit there be idle, chat and not do any work becuase they can't use Revit.

    I keep telling them that up-skilling is important and the company require drafter to be proficient with Revit. I understand from their perspective - they will will have nor merit in going through the trouble of learning a new package since they will retire in 1-5 years time. But having 3 senior drafter that is unproductive and hence each earn over $50 an hour - costing the company money...
    I have no advice for you other than to find a politcally-correct way of telling those slackers to get with the program or find a new job! Just because they may retire in 1-5 years does not give them an excuse to sit around doing nothing while the company tries to progress in Revit. I'm a member of the older generation you describe (42) who started out on the board, made the switch to CAD, and am now embracing yet another paradigm shift to BIM, but (unlike your co-workers) am thrilled to witness the evolution take place while I am still in the business. As a CAD Manager, I know how hard it is to motivate people who are complacent in their current position/role, so you are going to fight a neverending uphill battle, but to hear that you have unproductive senior drafters sitting around making big bucks for doing nothing while the junior guy does all the work is just appalling. IMHO management needs to shake things up and make some threats, but I digress...I'm preaching to the choir and without management's backing, you have a no-win situation on your hands

    Good luck, you'll need it!
    Timothy S. Kramer
    AEC BIM Specialist

    "Just because you can doesn't mean you should!!!"
    "You don't know what you don't know!"

    What am I doing HERE??? I should be working on my Nash!

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    100 Club Beancud's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by Misteracad View Post
    I have no advice for you other than to find a politcally-correct way of telling those slackers to get with the program or find a new job! Just because they may retire in 1-5 years does not give them an excuse to sit around doing nothing while the company tries to progress in Revit. I'm a member of the older generation you describe (42) who started out on the board, made the switch to CAD, and am now embracing yet another paradigm shift to BIM, but (unlike your co-workers) am thrilled to witness the evolution take place while I am still in the business. As a CAD Manager, I know how hard it is to motivate people who are complacent in their current position/role, so you are going to fight a neverending uphill battle, but to hear that you have unproductive senior drafters sitting around making big bucks for doing nothing while the junior guy does all the work is just appalling. IMHO management needs to shake things up and make some threats, but I digress...I'm preaching to the choir and without management's backing, you have a no-win situation on your hands

    Good luck, you'll need it!
    Thanks for your answer. I think I have put the term older generations in a poor way. There are plenty of... higher age drafters out there that is thrilled to be embracing BIM, such as yourself.

    You are right about people that are complacent - they have worked hard to get to their position, happy with thier same old 2D line drafting, happy with their seat and happy with their current salary. As much as I tried to convince them they think Revit will come and go.

    *sigh* back to cad labour......

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    Default Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by Beancud View Post
    Thanks for your answer. I think I have put the term older generations in a poor way. There are plenty of... higher age drafters out there that is thrilled to be embracing BIM, such as yourself.

    You are right about people that are complacent - they have worked hard to get to their position, happy with thier same old 2D line drafting, happy with their seat and happy with their current salary. As much as I tried to convince them they think Revit will come and go.

    *sigh* back to cad labour......
    If I remember correctly, AutoCAD was supposed to just "come and go."

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    I could stop if I wanted to ekubaskie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    There's this guy I really admired. He was an orthopedic surgeon. Retired, didn't care anymore...

    He found out about this procedure (Ilizarov) that could FIX many of the classic problems that made people "lame" for life. He learned it, started a new practice - started living again.

    I worked for a company that invented electronic devices to bring about a second revolution with Ilizarov procedures. He jumped on the idea, and I got to work with him several times.

    Ever since, I've had this saying:

    "The day I stop learning is the day I start dying."

    At 52, I'm hardly ready to croak yet.

    I've gone from vanilla AutoCAD to Softdesk to Land Desktop to Civil 3D.

    When I first saw C3D I wondered how long I had as a CAD monkey. This thing did half my job! But C3D is not simple, and my final strategy was to learn it so well that I'd still be the "go-to" guy.

    I've broadened that strategy to participation in alpha/beta testing, usability testing, marketing council, reading (and commenting on) CAD blogs, being here and MyFeedback and the discussion forums, AU attendance (#5 coming up) ...

    And hey, I still have time for a life. I just don't get home and flop in front of the TV with a beer. (Duh, I'm in front of the computer with a !)

    Don't "get by"; don't "keep up"; keep AHEAD!

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    Certified AUGI Addict jaberwok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by ekubaskie View Post
    There's this guy I really admired. He was an orthopedic surgeon. Retired, didn't care anymore...

    He found out about this procedure (Ilizarov) that could FIX many of the classic problems that made people "lame" for life. He learned it, started a new practice - started living again.
    Off topic.

    I had one of them when I smashed my leg. It was like having the space station from 2001 orbiting my knee. A great technique.
    John B

    "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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    100 Club Beancud's Avatar
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    Red face Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by ekubaskie View Post

    And hey, I still have time for a life. I just don't get home and flop in front of the TV with a beer. (Duh, I'm in front of the computer with a !)

    Don't "get by"; don't "keep up"; keep AHEAD!
    Exactly! if you are not Ahead you are falling behind and behidn the 8 ball.

    although I still value my time after work with a beer and footy on tv.... and resting my leg up on comfy couch.... I hope that doesn't make me behind

    One of the old grandpa finally left, he was a contractor. He always complained about not getting any support from the company, not getting training and have to save $$$ to support his sick wife. I told him *nicely* that he want get any support from the company unless he becomes a full time employee and he should have started a retirement fund before turning 75.

    I think after this experience I now value people who are willing to learn and are enthusiatic over people with many years of experience who have become self righteous and bitter.

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    Certified AUGI Addict jaberwok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by Beancud View Post
    One of the old grandpa finally left, he was a contractor. He always complained about not getting any support from the company, not getting training and have to save $$$ to support his sick wife. I told him *nicely* that he want get any support from the company unless he becomes a full time employee and he should have started a retirement fund before turning 75.

    I think after this experience I now value people who are willing to learn and are enthusiatic over people with many years of experience who have become self righteous and bitter.
    As a conractor, he should have known (and probably did know) better than to expect support, training or anything else from the companies he worked for.
    But don't forget that, in the 80s, we were the enthusiasts, the evangelists for CAD, the ones who figured out how to make it useful.
    Don't assume that experience and enthusiasm are always incompatible.
    John B

    "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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    100 Club Beancud's Avatar
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    Question Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by jaberwok View Post
    As a conractor, he should have known (and probably did know) better than to expect support, training or anything else from the companies he worked for.
    But don't forget that, in the 80s, we were the enthusiasts, the evangelists for CAD, the ones who figured out how to make it useful.
    Don't assume that experience and enthusiasm are always incompatible.
    Roger that, although it is difficult if we had to look for people to come in. Do you look for people who have experience with Revit? which has only been around for a year or so, or people who were the enthusiasts in the 80's. I think when my boss hired this contractor he was hiring in basis of +20 years experience in CAD - yet his attitude to learning was poor and was extremely slow even using simple AutoCAD.

    Cheers,

    Beans

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    Default Re: Revit & New generation users vs old users

    Quote Originally Posted by Beancud View Post
    ...yet his attitude to learning was poor and was extremely slow even using simple AutoCAD.

    Cheers,

    Beans
    Based on just that part of your previous post, I think you know what you should be looking for in a new hire. Even if they've been using Revit since its release (I believe it's been longer than a year), if they're not enthusiastic about the work, they're not going to work out. If you hired someone that had the experience in your field with no knowledge that Revit even exists, but is enthusiastic about learning to use it, they'd be a great fit.
    It just depends on the user.

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