Small Firm Standards

[guitarchitect7]

Hey all,

I was hired a year ago to put together standards that the company can use to help with the productivity of producing CD's. We're a smaller firm that sometimes only needs 2 sheets for our CD's to relay all info to our contractors to complete the job. So what I'm struggling with is how to setup our working drawings and plotted drawings within our current folder structure.

My background has come from larger firms that seem to fit more of the mold of what a lot of you do. But now being here, I begin to question the value of the time to create everything in that aspect for a smaller company. For example:

Typically base drawings are created to use as Xref's into the separate plot drawings that essentially make up your construction drawing sheet set. So you end up having Floor Plan, Elevations, etc. all referenced to their appropriate sheet, with every drawing being separate from the other.

In our case, it seems that sometimes all we have are floor plans, elevations, and electrical drawings. There are schedules but currently are referenced with their appropriate drawing instead of just nesting in their own separate drawing. Since most of this info just fits onto one or two sheets, I begin to question the value of the time to create separate plot sheets when I can just create Layout Tabs to house all the info.

Ideally, I would like to have separate working drawings, but be able to Xref them all into only one plot drawing. This becomes an issue because of circular referencing of drawings. Any visibility changes I make to the Xref Floor Plan that is in the Electrical Drawing is overridden because it now wants to take on the properties of the original floor plan. I hope this all makes sense. So to combat this issue, I now just have all info included in one drawing and not as xrefs. This means that all construction documentation is designed, drawn, and plot in one file. This I think makes for bad security of the drawings.

So what have some of you at much smaller companies do. With each designer only working on their own designs, and my self assisting in that, but not working on it at the same time, there really isn't even an issue with multi-user access.

Thanks a bunch in advance, and feel free to ask questions as I know I don't make things as clear on paper as they seem in my head all the time.

[acote]

Seeing that most of your drawings are one or two sheets I see no need to xref. Xrefs are a valuable tool when you have repetition. We design hotels so our unit plans are xrefs. What you should concentrate on are layer, dimension, font etc... standards and most important is a backup procedure, which I feel you lack by your "This I think makes for bad security of the drawings" statement.

ACote

[guitarchitect7]

Seeing that most of your drawings are one or two sheets I see no need to xref. Xrefs are a valuable tool when you have repetition. We design hotels so our unit plans are xrefs. What you should concentrate on are layer, dimension, font etc... standards and most important is a backup procedure, which I feel you lack by your "This I think makes for bad security of the drawings" statement.

ACote

Actually I have already created and Archive and Submittal Sub Folders under the main project folder to save down all concepts and revisions. All files are backed up every night M-F. So the security is there. But we once had a file that we had to recover. Since all layers were gone and everything was on layer 0 on the recover I had to go through and relayer everything. But since all drawings were separate at that time, I only had to do a small portion, otherwise it could've been much larger if everything was in one file.

I think the approach I may have to look at is how to better organize what is actually drawn in the cad files. Either setting up a grid of where content should be drawn for easy locating, or some other method.

What do you think?

Also, we have layer, dimension, and text styles that we use. Most everything is in place, its just how to structure it to be the most productive.

[Brian Myers]

The use of XREFs are most valuable when you have more than one person working on a project at one time. If this isn't happening then removing XREFs from the process is just fine. But a better question is this:

Why do you want to change?

For just a handful of drawing sheets using XREFs can't be that much slower or less convenient than not using them at all. That doesn't mean containing them in one file isn't a good thing, I'm just trying to understand WHY you want to change? Is there production value to revising your current process? How about bottom-line benefits or coordination benefits?

In the end, working on small projects (something I did for years as a Residential designer/drafter) requires standards, but your productivity benefits come in the form of content libraries, organized tool palettes, proper use of your content browser and well named and properly organized file structures. What is "proper"? Easy access, easy to find, and easy to understand, not buried in dozens of different locations ideally.

Ultimately the number of files you have is less important than how you utilize and access the information in them. I keep in mind the KISS method, if you Keep It Simple in naming, in setup, and in accessibility then XREF or not (assuming the natural advantages of XREFs are not an issue) things will run smoothly for you. If it seems overly complicated or slow, then it likely is.

While I realize this isn't a direct answer to your problem, it's more of a common sense one. Think of the reasons each file is located where it is. Is there a production benefit for it? If not then simplify. If there is a benefit then keep it where it is. Always remember KISS: Keep It Simple (or it will be) Slow (difficult, and often not efficient).

[MXM]

It shouldn't matter if you are a small firm versus a large firm or your working on a big project versus a large project. Using base or background files that you xref into your sheet files is a sound cad drawing practice. Take a look at the National Cad Standard website for various cad drafting guidelines. See the website below.

http://www.nationalcadstandard.org/ncs_pages.php

[guitarchitect7]

Dilbert, Thanks for the thought out reply.

First off, I think I made the rookie mistake and that was trying to organize and standardize to what I'm use to instead of what actually makes sense. Although the best CAD practices are xref's and such, I need to look at if it will really help with the productivity, communication, and workability of the drawings.

Dilbert, I will try and answer your questions.

Why do you want to change? My total idea was to try and generate organization with the drawings so that any person can open them and understand what is where and why. That was the first issue I saw coming to this company and was my main goal. I then proceeded to think the best way for this was to seperate all the drawings to the file names and the content in them are laid out in a simple way so anyone would know what it is. The struggle becomes to plotting of these seperate sheets.

Is there production value to revising your current process? There is definately a value. With having 3 designers / drafters all doing their own work, I'm trying to unify and standardize the way the final product looks. And also set expectations so that anyone can open the drawing for plotting, revising, ect. and be familiar with the drawing space prior to even seeing it. Although everyone has their way of designing, trying to find a consensus on the way to draft it all. By doing this, it also just helps me because then instead of having to remember tendencies of the designers, I just know what our standards has in place and follow that to a 'T'.

How about bottom-line benefits or coordination benefits? I think just touched on this in the last part of the statement above. Right now, everyone kind of does their own thing. One drawing looks really, really detailed, while the others are fairly plain. Information is just thrown on the drawings where it can fit and it makes it for a hassle for out production guys as they never know where to expect to find what they need. By having everyone on the same page as to where to locate drawings within a drawing or drawings, and then have fairly specific places to place information, then I know how I need to put the drawings together, and the production guys know where to look to find the info. Granite it varies per the job, but in respect if follows the same guidelines.

So in the end, just trying to do what all of you have had to do as some point in your career. But molding it to fit a smaller firm that handles smaller projects, sometimes just one room at a time, and the best way to organize and communicate that info without causing any unecessary headaches to just get there.

Thanks.

[guitarchitect7]

I think I have acessed all the scenerios and have come to a soution.

Single File approach

If I would proceed with this approach, it would allow for quick plotting directly from the working file. It allows everyone to sketch what they want all in one drawing and see how everything relates to the other. Revision become an issue. If a wall moves or some other item, this is not automaticly reflected in other plans (elect, mechan, etc.) and thus either needs revised in multiple areas manually, or redefining a block so they all update. Visibility then becomes an issue. If redefining of blocks is the way to update created electrical plans that overlay the main floor plan, then any visibilty changes ( removal of dimensions, floor plan notes, etc.) that are made are are no longer valid as they would be overriden with the updated block definition.

Multi-Sheet Drawings and Plotting

This method does involve more collaboration between other drawings for modifications. Jumping from one drawing to another is necessary and doesn't allow he natural sketching feel of working with the drawings. Managment of Xrefs is a must to allow for good communication between drawings. The folder direction does get clustered with more drawing files to search through, so good File Naming standards is also a must. Make things clear and simple as to not confuse anyone.

This method increase productivity because it allows one base file to be used and referenced for all drawings with an automatic update anytime a change is made to the base. No need to redefine blocks, visibility changes are retained, and cleaner drawing files are generated.

Plotting becomes takes a bit more time. But by using the Publish command, with save sheet lists, opening past sheet lists will allow for batch plotting of multiple sheet files. A program here would be nice to help automate this process as to help eliminate clicks or explaination of steps.


Although I have one designer who likes the idea of Sheet Tabs in one Sheet File to help him see all sheets and make for easy printing, that way of drafting seems to cause a loss in productivity regarding the actual drawings. Being able to have Xrefs reload upon changes and reflect in all drawings, especially Electrical, this saves the time of having to reset and redefine any blocks in a drawing. It seems the Multipage - MultiSheet structure of drawing files, even if only two drawings, seems to be the best method of moving forward for future drawing structure and layouts.

[Opie]

I'm not as wordy as Dilbert, but for the plotting issue, you could look into the Sheet Set Manager. Using Publish (with or without overrides) will allow you to plot a set of plans quickly without needing to open each drawing or saving a sheet list for publishing.

[guitarchitect7]

I'm not as wordy as Dilbert, but for the plotting issue, you could look into the Sheet Set Manager. Using Publish (with or without overrides) will allow you to plot a set of plans quickly without needing to open each drawing or saving a sheet list for publishing.

I'm a fan of it, but at this point, I think it has more to it than what we need. I feel that going the old school route with having titleblock blocks inserted into the sheets with attributes might be sufficient enough.

Hopefully this new / old way I described above can help with the transition into the SSM.

[Brian Myers]

I'm not as wordy as Dilbert,

My friend, I think you know by now nobody on a regular basis is as wordy as I am when I get going. You have 3,000 more official posts, but I bet we are close in total words in technical forums.

----------------

guitarchitect7: I think you are heading in the right direction! I'll keep adding thoughts as I come up with them.